Quantcast

Crimping the 7mm Nosler Ballistic Silvertips hunting bullets

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by Kuyong_Chuin, Aug 19, 2013.

?

Should the Nosler Ballistic Silvertips be crimped for hunting use in a bolt action?

Poll closed Nov 17, 2013.
  1. Crimp

    8.0%
  2. Don't need to crimp

    76.0%
  3. Either one is correct

    16.0%
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Kuyong_Chuin

    Kuyong_Chuin Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2013
    Messages:
    621
    Location:
    Hickman County Tennessee
    Okay then main reason for this thread is more for my hard headed brother than for myself. I listen to you guys and what I am reading in the manuals. I told him I would do this thread to show him that what it shows in the manuals is correct and not what some guy he met at the gun show tells him. As the title says the bullet is a 7mm. Nosler Ballistic Silvertips bullet. This bullet is black in color and very slick to the touch and will be used for hunting. Now the manuals say that unless the bullets are cast or jacketed with a crimp groove you need to crimp the bullets and if the bullets are being used for hunting that you must always crimp the bullet because of the rough handling involved. The guy at the show told him that because he used a bolt action that he didn't have to crimp the bullets and if he did crimp the bullet the gun wouldn't be accurate and would be 5 to 6 inch groups at 100 yards. So help me help him by telling what is correct.

    P.S. There is no crimp groove on these bullets.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2013
  2. j2crows

    j2crows Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2011
    Messages:
    177
    Location:
    New Mexico
    I never crimp any of my Nosler bullets for my .243, 25.06, .270, 7 mm, 300 Win mag.
     
  3. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2007
    Messages:
    59,076
    Location:
    Eastern KS
    There is no need or good reason to crimp a bullet for use in a bolt-action rifle.

    Especially one as mild kicking as a 7mm Mauser or 7mm Mag.
    Whichever you are talking about???

    Especially if the bullet does not have a crimp cannulure!!


    Crimping for a bolt-gun is only necessary on very hard kicking calibers used to hunt elephants and such.
    Or for use in tubular magazines on lever-action rifles.

    The severe recoil from those calibers can drive the bullets in the magazine deeper in the case.

    Not gonna happen with any normal / mild recoiling hunting caliber such as yours.

    You Don't need to crimp.

    And You Should Not Crimp, if there is no cannulure on the bullet to crimp in!

    rc
     
  4. 4895

    4895 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2011
    Messages:
    732
    Location:
    Tucson, Arizona
    Only way to know how crimp affects accuracy is to experiment. Sounds like a costly adventure. I don't think it will make a hoot of difference for a hunting round. What kind of "rough handling" do you do with a "hunting round" anyways? I usually put one in the chamber and leave it there all day myself. I like to get tight groups on paper but for hunting I want to make the target bleed. That means getting the most energy/velocity I can muster for the particular caliber. I don't crimp bolt gun or single shot rifle cartridges. If you don't have proper neck tension, a crimp won't fix that IMHO. A crimp can become a detriment when applied too hard distorting the bullet. I guess it can be argued either way, but as said before it is all academic until you actually load the rounds 300 ways from $unday and find out if it makes a difference.
     
  5. Kuyong_Chuin

    Kuyong_Chuin Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2013
    Messages:
    621
    Location:
    Hickman County Tennessee
    It is a 7MM Magnum. Why does the manual say to always crimp hunting loads? The rifles get jarred around quite a bit when he drives out to his stand on the old logging roads in the 4x4.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2013
  6. steve4102

    steve4102 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    2,458
    Location:
    Minnesota
    What manual/manuals say to always crimp hunting loads?

    Sorry, but the guy at the Gun Show was correct, there is no reason to crimp a 7MM Mag Bolt action. Unless, unless you want to, and for some that is reason enough. If you want to crimp you certainly can, but if you do and your bullet does not have a cannelure, get a Lee Factory Crimp die and learn how to use it.

    Very few handloaders crimp for bolt actions, semi-autos and lever guns, yes, bolt actions, not so much.
     
  7. gamestalker

    gamestalker member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2008
    Messages:
    9,827
    Location:
    SW Arizona
    In over 30 yrs. of reloading, I've never crimped any bottle neck cartridge, other than a 30-30 tubular magazine.

    And if your seeking the most accurate load obtainable, crimping isn't going to do you any justice.

    I just loaded some of those ballistic tip silver tips in .270 win., and they don't even have a canelure to begin with. I think I loaded some of those for the 7 mag. too, and they didn't have a canelure either, not that it would make any difference anyway, I still wouldn't crimp. I often see canelures on Hornady and Barns bullets, but I still don't, and won't crimp. All crimping does for bottle neck loading is, it introduces one more variable to have to decipher when things don't come together well.

    Save crimping for cartridges that require it.

    GS
     
  8. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2007
    Messages:
    59,076
    Location:
    Eastern KS
    Jarred??
    Seriously??

    If the case-neck tension is what it should be in a 7mm?

    It should take at least 60-70 pounds of pressure to slip the bullet in the case without a crimp.

    That is enough pressure to flatten soft-point bullet tips, or break off plastic ballistic-tips!!

    If your buddy's jeep rides that hard?

    He would be better served with some new off-road HD shocks.
    (Two on each wheel)

    Rather then a crimping die.

    rc
     
  9. steve4102

    steve4102 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    2,458
    Location:
    Minnesota
    I'm curious, if you have never crimped a bottle necked rifle round, how would you know this?
     
  10. Kuyong_Chuin

    Kuyong_Chuin Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2013
    Messages:
    621
    Location:
    Hickman County Tennessee
    Lee 2nd edition, page 38, 2nd paragraph. That is where the rough handling quote came from as well.
    Oh and a Lee factory crimping die would be used.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2013
  11. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2006
    Messages:
    26,039
    Location:
    Northeast PA, USA
    Like said above, crimping a bottle neck rifle cartridge is not necessary although I do put a light crimp on my rifle cartridges. I use Lee a FCD because it's a collet and will not damage the bullet if used correctly.

    The gun-show guy is both right and wrong. You don't "need" to crimp but the mere fact you do so will not increase the groups to 5" or 6" @100 yards, well unless you severely damage the bullets. I do a lot of loading for leverguns so I add a crimp to that ammo and just kept doing it for all my rifle ammo, even those rounds that are shot in a bolt action rifle. I tested both and the accuracy was the same.
     
  12. Dthunter

    Dthunter Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2012
    Messages:
    302
    Location:
    Alberta, Canada
    Well, I "know" this, there isnt a single shooter in any level of competition that i have been in, that crimps thier bullets.

    I own,shoot target rifles/hunting rifles in 7mmRem mag.
    I regularily shoot with my friends out to and past 1760 yards.
    I have hunted some seriously steep/rough country, and at times, been unfortunately rough on my equipment. Thats hunting. Never has my ammo ever had a bullet noticably change position in the case.

    Crimping the case introduces many more variables to control.
    If the best shooters on the planet dont need to do it, then most of us dont either.
    I think thats simple enough.

    If a shooter is shooting a large caliber, dangerous game cartridge (.375 and up), then the mass of the bullet introduces a significantly larger risk to move.
    These rifles "performance" isnt tack driving accuracy, ( although some are amazing!) it is absolute dependable feeding and function that is the desired characteristic.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2013
  13. gamestalker

    gamestalker member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2008
    Messages:
    9,827
    Location:
    SW Arizona
    Steve4102, that's a fair question, how would I know? I don't have personal experience as stated with crimping bottle necks, but I also don't know of any competitive shooters who crimp them either, though i would imagine some do. And in my books it is discussed as having no advantage regarding accuracy, and may even degrade accuracy if anything. About the only case that might benefit from a crimp to prevent a projectile from becoming dislodged from the mouth, would be short necked cases like the 300 WM when seating long. I have heard of some reloaders regularly using a crimp with that bottle neck for sure.

    And it's not really a right or wrong issue, as mentioned by ArchAngelCD, but more of, is it necessary, and what does it accomplish if neck tension is normal to begin with. I personally contend, that it is just introducing one more step and variable to the simplistic process of seating bullets in a bottle neck cartridge.

    GS
     
  14. steve4102

    steve4102 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    2,458
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Fair enough, but most if not all the naysayers regarding crimping have, one never tested it and two, just regurgitate the Bench rest comparison.

    There are tests, actual tests not just opinion and speculation on the affects of crimping and accuracy.

    Check this out. No theory, not BR comparison, just actual off the bench testing.
    http://www.accuratereloading.com/crimping.html
     
  15. docsleepy

    docsleepy Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2009
    Messages:
    1,023
    Either put the rounds in a padded container, or put the rifle in a hardsided, padded container with the rounds in the magazine.

    I tried to measure the force needed to straight seat a bullet in a 7mm08. My scale went past 200 lbs. I weight 250. I could not manage to seat one. I never realized just what a press does for you!!!! Now, I'll also admit that I had some cases that were way over-used and the neck material was so "hard" that the sizer die failed, in that the metal just sprung back when sized -- bullets could be flat slipped in or out. But that is a failure of neck tension, as someone above already pointed out. Annealing the neck fixes this problem.
     
  16. docsleepy

    docsleepy Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2009
    Messages:
    1,023
    steve --

    If you have inconsistent neck tension, I would believe that you would have similar results to what was in that link's data. I've certainly experienced inconsistent neck tension!! If no other solution (new brass, or anneal old brass carefully) is available, then crimping might work.

    I don't have a lot of proof to my beliefs. I recently did a very tiny test of crimped commercial hunting ammo versus my own uncrimped handloads -- in really really old multiple multiple times used brass -- and there was no difference. UMC ammo for .223 which is crimped has always been twice the size of the groups of my handloaded uncrimped ammo -- but that may be just saying that the cheap UMC stuff isn't made very well.

    There are an awful lot of things that go into making consistent ammunition. A huge number of variables. Crimping is one of them, that may be overshadowed easily by others.
     
  17. witchhunter

    witchhunter Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2012
    Messages:
    1,891
    Location:
    Lassen County, California
    Easy answer is to load a few crimped and a few uncrimped and shoot groups. I would be willing to bet it shoots uncrimped better, but you never know...I only crimp my 30/30 type stuff as a safety measure in a tube magazine.
     
  18. A-FIXER

    A-FIXER Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2009
    Messages:
    502
    Location:
    USA
    steve, a good read and yes I crimp all of my cal's forgoing the naysayers. I do find that it improves my accuracy and fps is less than without my crimps. I do not know how heavy others crimp only that what crimp I do use work for me.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice