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CSI analyst needs help with EAA proof mark (PLEASE)

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by hankdatank1362, Mar 27, 2015.

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  1. hankdatank1362

    hankdatank1362 Member

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    Hello all! I need help for a coworker and figured this would be a good place to look. One of our CSI guys needs help tracing the proof mark on a EAA Witness P-S. We've already called EAA and the lady was helpful but couldn't be specific about what country it came from. Any chance one of the experts on here could help?

    81D6D132-8ECF-4914-8AF0-783D8C20F6C8_zpsiyw8iqjo.jpg
     
  2. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    That's the only mark on the gun? That's the only picture you have?
    Too bad, then, I never saw the like. Perhaps something in between the 6 and the 1 was obliterated with punch marks.

    There OUGHT to be other proof marks, I have googled multiple sites to say that the Witness P-S is made by Tanfoglio of Italy.
     
  3. Peter M. Eick

    Peter M. Eick Member

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    I agree with Jim. Witness's are made in Italy by Tanfolgio. I was out shooting one of mine today.
     
  4. armoredman

    armoredman Member

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    Witness is the name given to the Tanfolgio Force model pistol produced by Tanfoglio of Italy. They are produced nowhere else and called Tanfoglios. Clones are produced in Turkey under the name the Sarsilmaz Canik and the AR-24. Tanfoglio pistols have previously been imported into the United States under the names TA-90, TZ-75, Springfield P-9, and the Baby Eagle/Jericho 941 has slides and frames built by Tanfoglio, and final assembly done in Israel, last time I checked.
    That's not a proof mark - European proofs are usually far more stylized. That looks like assembly numbers with random punch marks in between. Proof marks will include a crest or coat of arms.

    Edit to add I did find one picture with a quick Google search that has a mark similar to that, not a perfect match, on it's tail, no numbers, on an EAA pistol.

    http://tanfoglioforum.com/uploads/Slide_mark_01.jpg
     
  5. Jim K

    Jim K Member.

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    The marking on the OP's gun appears to be the result of someone obliterating a factory marking with a punch of some sort. Usually the obliterated mark is a serial number.

    If I needed to determine what is underneath, I would use a flat file to take the area down below the punch marks and then use acid to try to raise the original markings. If they were stamped into the metal, the compressed areas will stand out while the un-compressed areas are eaten away by the acid. (Which is why the expression "raising the serial number.")

    Jim
     
  6. Miked7762

    Miked7762 Member

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    I can't help with the answer, but it's interesting that the photo EAA has on their own website to help locate their serial numbers has the same markings. Strange that they wouldn't know what it was.

    witn_poly_serial_no_lg.jpg
     
  7. RaceM

    RaceM Member

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    Looks to me like the stippling is intended to fill in the space between the two sets of numbers. Note the difference in size between the first and second set.
     
  8. Deaf Smith

    Deaf Smith Member

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    Where is this proof Mark located?

    Now it looks like the 2nd and 3ed figures were obliterated, right?

    I guess acid won't raise the marks.

    Deaf
     
  9. rhinoh

    rhinoh Member

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    The EAA website says the first part of the sequence is the serial number and the second part is the catalog number.
    I'm wondering if the marks are just their way of filling in the gap so no one can add digits to make it appear to have a different "serial number".
    Seems like an odd way to do that though-
     
  10. USAav8r

    USAav8r Member

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    Wait. CSI analyst like on TV? So is this friend of yours unreasonably attractive? Is she just as comfortable studying forensic evidence as she is serving a high risk warrant (number one in the stack of course)? How does she like working with all the futuristic technology and witty co workers? Or am I thinking of a different CSI?
     
  11. hankdatank1362

    hankdatank1362 Member

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    Hahaha! I'm not sure if I'd call HIM attractive, but I'll admit he has a penchant for neckties in impossibly informal situations! Lol

    Thankyou all for your responses. I must say, I was a little confused by this. I've never dealt with EAA polymer guns, but on the metal frame guns, the proof was usually above the triggerguard on the frame... And was more of an image stamp, not a number...

    But I'll pass along your responses. Thanks again!
     
  12. mgkdrgn

    mgkdrgn Member

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    Maybe it's just me ... but why would you be tracing "proof marks"? Wouldn't the serial number tell you here it came from?
     
  13. hankdatank1362

    hankdatank1362 Member

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    I wondered the same thing. So upon a little further questioning, I learned that during a drug arrest, the dope guys charged the owner of the gun with an obliterated serial number. Turns out he didn't need it traced... Just more of a "should these marks be here?" Kind of question.

    My suggestion was to drop those charges before court...
     
  14. rhinoh

    rhinoh Member

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    Whoa- 5 minutes on the net with google would have shown them what the deal was with the numbers...
    A decent lawyer would easily have made them look like fools in court.
     
  15. hankdatank1362

    hankdatank1362 Member

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    Absolutely! I'm just glad that the offender was arrested on drug charges, not just this. Because that would really be awkward. I know not all of us cops are gun people.... But we all have smartphones with Google nowadays lol.

    I'll be the first to admit I don't know everything. But there's not much I can't find out with a little research... And help from THR!!! Lol
     
  16. mgkdrgn

    mgkdrgn Member

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    good lord .... the cops don't know proof marks from serial numbers. no wonder recovered stolen guns never find their way home ...
     
  17. Snyper

    Snyper Member

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    I'm not surprised the person who answered the phone at EAA didn't know about the markings

    I think they are some sort of production code or individual inspector's mark since they appear to have been made with a single stamp.

    I've seen similar stamps on some rifles and it was identified as a scannable mark sort of like a barcode
     
  18. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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    I think the CSI agent should put in for a Plane ticket to Italy and visit the plant and get to the bottom of this. Of course charge the taxpayers for this trip.:D
     
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