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CSPAN thread for Monday 03/01/04

Discussion in 'Legal' started by bfieldburt, Mar 1, 2004.

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  1. armoredman

    armoredman Member

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    Can't believe Schumer would miss this.....polictical move to distance himself from failure - ie, "If I had been there, it would have been differant, wasn't my fault", etc? I wonder....:rolleyes:
     
  2. Nightfall

    Nightfall Member

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    Reed: The NICS is very effective and fast. 91% of checks occur is less than 5 minutes. This is not a burden that will undermine the ability of a gun show to operate. Evidence is that those states which have closed this loophole is that gun show continue to operate. This will not put an undue burden of purchasers. Gun owners overwhelming support closing this loophole, 83%. This is all quite different from the private sale to a friend. Here you could literally have hundreds of thousands of people come to your booth and say they want to buy that gun. Calls for support.
     
  3. Kharn

    Kharn Member

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    Craig is discussing law abiding citizens and tangents on Project Exile-type enforcement.

    Kharn
     
  4. Bartholomew Roberts

    Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus

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    It is my understanding that several amendments had already been filed before the cloture vote (gun shows, AWB renewal, law enforcement CCW, Daschle/Craig) - so Craig could not stop those amendments from happening.

    As for the rest that were added during the unanimous consent agreement, I imagine there is a lot of horse-trading going on even by people who don't care about the issue. They are looking to trade votes now for issues that are important to them. This could explain why we saw unrelated amendments like unemployment and voting rights be proposed.
     
  5. 7.62FullMetalJacket

    7.62FullMetalJacket Member

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    Nightfall

    A Big Thank You for being the official THR transciber.

    You are doing a great job.
     
  6. Nightfall

    Nightfall Member

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    Craig: How were those 3 terrorists caught? They violated the law. This is fact, and they were caught. Does this mean with McCain-Reed that now the sieve will be so tight that nothing will fall through? No, they will simply stand at the door. If they are not FFLs, they can step outside and sell that weapon. If there is a loophole, there's another. That's the reality that we've been able to reduce crime rates and save lives, when we said if you use a gun in the commission of a crime you do the time. No parol or plea bargain. Time and again where this is used, crime drops dramatically. Tells a story of a man in MD who used a baseball bat instead of a gun, because he knew he'd have a much harsher sentence if he did. Gun shows are not the chosen venue that terrorists acquire their lethalness. Less than 1% of acquired guns are from gun shows, and that's a reason for a new bureaucratic hurdle? The reason Reed can give his examples is because those people broke the law, and were caught. To suggest to the individual that they must comply with FFL regulations inside a gun show is absurd (paraphrased end).
     
  7. Kharn

    Kharn Member

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    Senator Cornyn from Texas just submitted an amendment entitled the "Gun Owner Privacy Act" (approximately).
    He believes instant background checks are important.

    This would require that 24hrs after a lawful sale occurs, the check be destroyed.

    Kharn
     
  8. TheOtherOne

    TheOtherOne Member

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    Senator Cornyn's amendment makes the background check records destroyed after 24 hours. I thought they already passed a law that does this?
     
  9. Nightfall

    Nightfall Member

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    Cornyn: This is the gun owner privacy protection amdt. It will continue a law set to expire soon. I believe when it comes to protecting the American people, that the NICS is an important part of protecting the people on an near instaneous basis. The threat comes when career criminals use firearms to commit crimes. Specifically, this requires that 24 hours after a sale to a lawful gun owner, that records would be destroyed. The purpose of NICS is NOT, I repeat not, not to maintain a record of gun owners. That invasion of private lawful purchasers is never justified. This amdt does not change the req of dealers holding records for up to 20 years. Finally, I say that any NICS check that reveals an illegal purchaser would be retained.
     
  10. TheOtherOne

    TheOtherOne Member

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    I think Sen. Craig just said the Cornyn amendment is sensible and a good thing but won't be put on S. 1805.
     
  11. Nightfall

    Nightfall Member

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    Craig: I support this becoming part of 1805, but I do not think it will be at this time. It would help prevent federal government from making paper trails to lawful citizens.
     
  12. Frohickey

    Frohickey Member

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    I don't think they have passed a law about how long the background checks are supposed to be kept. I think the last law was the Brady Bill/Law, and that did not stipulate a set time period with which to get rid of the successful background check.
     
  13. Kharn

    Kharn Member

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    Bingaman up.
    Is his amendment pro or anti?

    Kharn
     
  14. Andrew Rothman

    Andrew Rothman Member

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    Bingaman is anti. He is saying that the immunity is too broad.

    By the way, it's on CSPAN2, not CSPAN. Check local listings for station info. :)
     
  15. Headless Thompson Gunner

    Headless Thompson Gunner Member

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    I like this Sen Craig from Idaho. We need more of him.

    Howsabout a constitutional ammendment granting 15 or 20 senators to State of Idaho??
     
  16. Frohickey

    Frohickey Member

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    No.

    A constitutional amendment authorizing the creation of 99 clones of Senator Larry Craig, and 434 clones of Ron Paul.

    :D
     
  17. Kharn

    Kharn Member

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    Sob story about a set of 14, 15 and 16 year olds buying a gun for $40 from a guy in a parking lot, who then shot the 14yo. 14 yo's parents sued as the gun didnt have a warning saying the gun might still be loaded with the magazine removed, and there was no mag disconnect, judge dismissed suit, suit reinstated by another court, etc. Claims the gun design was defective.

    Kharn
     
  18. Frohickey

    Frohickey Member

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    stupid Bingaman...
    A gun is always loaded, even if the magazine is not in. :cuss:
    The gun worked fine. The brother of Shawn Smith stupidly pulled the trigger. Pulling the trigger means you want the gun to fire, if it had a round under the firing pin.
     
  19. Nightfall

    Nightfall Member

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    Bingaman: My amdt would correct one of the most obvious problems of S. 1805. It would make 1805 do more what it's proponents claim it would do. I have some sympathy with those concerned with these frivolous cases. But it does more than bar these cases. It bars cases that are a result from defective design that cause injury. The NRA says 1805 does not prevent reasonable defective design cases. But that is false. 1805 says it's only reasonable to foresee an injury when used in a lawful manor. In other words, they do not have to foresee injury when there is illegal use. It's like saying that a speeding car driver could not sue for a defective car when he crashed. Says suits by those hurt by this would not be able to sue. In 1993 there were 3 teens hanging out. They decided to go out to eat, and were approached. They were asked to buy a gun and ammo. One examined the gun's chamber, took the magazine, put it in the gun, and bought the whole thing. They went home. At the house, he took the mag out, and they passed the gun around. They all thought the gun was unloaded since the mag was out again. While they passed it around, one boy pulled the trigger and shot his friend. They filed suit against the mfg because there was no warning the gun might be loaded, or mag disconnect. It is the opinion of the Congressional Research Service that this case would be barred if 1805 came to pass.
     
  20. TheOtherOne

    TheOtherOne Member

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    Basically, what I'm hearing from Bingaman is that if his amendment is added it effectively mutes S. 1805.
     
  21. Nightfall

    Nightfall Member

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    Bingaman: S.1805 is saying that those using a gun negligently, that Congress is saying those injuries are not foreseeable (is this guy really arguing that those using a gun for illegal purposes should be able to sue mfgs?) We are saying that we will not require gun mfgs to see a potential hazard when there are laws being broken. We should not be passing a law to shield gun mfgs from this standard of care that all other mfgs must meet.
     
  22. Kharn

    Kharn Member

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    Craig is up again, kicking butt and taking names.

    Kharn
     
  23. Nightfall

    Nightfall Member

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    Craig: This amdt would undermine 1805. Rather than leave criminal and other unlawful misuse out, Bingaman would define reasonablely foreseeable as including this. Reasonably foreseeable does not include unlawful use. Criminal acts are not foreseeable. Though the legislation does not prohibit reasonable suit, there is no open door for antis to claim guns are defective products simply by being firearms. The case Senator Bingaman refers to, still involves a violation of the law, such as the negligent handling of a handgun. Again, criminal acts are not foreseeable. The amdt would strike language from 1805 that is basically current law. States right up that the before mentioned case would be dismissed because. :D
     
  24. TheOtherOne

    TheOtherOne Member

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    Craig pointed out that the handgun the 14-15 year olds purchased was illegally purchased (minors).
     
  25. dustind

    dustind Member

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    Craig was talking about a child not knowing about the pistol being chambered, and how it would be deemed (rightfuly so) a frivilous lawsuit.

    Jeff Sessions is up R-Alabama

    some guy killed a burglar and the gun dealer was sued for 13 mil. because the four year old son lost his criminal father.

    Talking about police officers carrying guns, and wanting to sue gun dealers as wrong when a criminal shoots a cop.

    He brought up the point of sueing in anti gun jurisdictions.

    Jeff sessions is doing well.
     
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