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Curio and Relic

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by karnaaj, Aug 7, 2007.

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  1. karnaaj

    karnaaj Member

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    Could someone please explain to me what having this FFL license allows one to do? Is it hard to get? What's the process? Thanks for any replies.
     
  2. fletcher

    fletcher Member

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    As far as I know, it allows you to receive firearms designated C&R directly to your door, and isn't terribly hard to get.

    There are a number of people on THR wil C&R FFLs who I'm sure can speak to the cost/trouble/benefits to having one.
     
  3. Trebor

    Trebor Member

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    The C&R FFL is for the "Collecting of Curio and Relic" firearms. The ATF has determined that any firearm, in original condition, that is at least 50 years old is a "Curio and Relic." In addition, certain specific firearms less then 50 years old have also been determined to be "Curio and Relics" due to their scarcity or collector interest or some combination of factors. A couple of examples of the second category include the East German Makarov (but not Bulgarian) and the Czech CZ-82.

    To apply for a C&R FFL you download and fill out the application from the ATF website. You also need to fill out the "proof of citizenship" form that is not actually on the application. You need to send a letter and a copy of your application to your local "Chief Law Enforcement Officer", just to inform him that you have applied for a C&R. You do NOT need his approval and he doesn't need to take any action. You send the original application, along with a $30 (I think?) fee to the ATF at the address listed on the form. When you receive your license, it is valid for 3 years before you have to renew it.

    When you have a C&R license you are REQUIRED to maintain a "Bound Book" that lists any C&R firearms you have acquired since you receive your C&R license, even if you did not actually use your license to acquire that firearm. This is called "logging in" that firearm.

    You are also required to record the "disposition" of any C&R firearm you dispose of during the time of your license. This is info relating to who you sold it to, the date of the transaction, and ID info on the purchaser. This called "logging out" that firearm. You are required to log out any C&R firearm in your bound book that you disposed of during the time of your license even if you acquired the firearm before you had your C&R license.

    When you have a C&R license you are allowed to receive C&R firearms directly to your address. You are the license holder for that purpose. Many, but not all, of the big distributers will sell C&R firearms directly to C&R license holders. This saves you money as you get them at a better price and saves on FFL transfer fees. You'll need to send a signed copy of your C&R license to the seller before they'll send the firearm out though.

    Be aware that certain states, such as California and NJ, place additional restrictions on C&R holders. For example, in California I believe all handgun sales must go through a FFL dealer and C&R holders can not have C&R handguns shipped right to them due to this state law.

    One last thought: A C&R license is designed to help you improve your personal collection. It is NOT a business license and you will get in trouble with the ATF if they determine that you are in the "business" of buying and selling firearms with a C&R license.

    For more info, go to the ATF website. Probably www.atf.gov.
     
  4. karnaaj

    karnaaj Member

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    Fletcher, Trebor, thanks for the quick replies. How much more difficult is it to get a full fledged FFL? Is it still even possible? I remember back in the day when they used to hand them out hand over fist but I am sure that has changed.
     
  5. Trebor

    Trebor Member

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    It is much harder to get a business FFL then it used to be. One of the ways the ATF has made it harder is that you now have to show that your "licensed premises" are in compliance with local zoning regs. If you want your home, for example, to be your "licensed premises," then you have to show that your local zoning regs allow you to run a commercial business from your home.

    The heyday of the "Kitchen table dealer" is pretty much gone. Some guys still do it, but many more are stymied by the zoning regs rule. The price has gone up to, IIRC, about $300 for three years as well.
     
  6. becket

    becket Member

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    Anyone know if "open rural" zoning will allow FFL in Florida?
    thanks
     
  7. Niner

    Niner Member

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    Trebor pretty much covered it.

    But don't think you can download the C&R form online any more. Think you can request the form and then mail it in after filling it out. You can also get a form from the batf office, if there is one near you.

    Chief law enforcement notification is still a question as to who that officially is. Most definitions would say the local sheriff is the CLEO....however.... local head of the police department in a city is often cited. I think I've always sent my renewal to the Sheriff, although they share the info with the local city police department..... I know because my daughter works for a local police department and the clerk that keeps track of such things and puts it into the system told her..."hey, looks like your dad collects guns".
     
  8. flynlr

    flynlr Member

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    beware of the dealer discounts that go with the C&R
    Midway has made a mint from me in the last 6 months since having my FFL.
    Brownells has a few of my bucks,. too.
     
  9. Bruce333

    Bruce333 Member

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    Correction.
    You can't download the form any more. Have to order it: http://www.atf.gov/dcof/index.htm

    The "Certificate of Compliance", which some call "proof of citizenship", has been incorporated into the application.
     
  10. Chrome

    Chrome Member

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    Question about the C&R:

    I know it is not a liscense to deal in firearms and you can only sell to advance your collection. However, are there any additional regulations you have to follow when you do sell a firearm to an individual?

    Later,
    Chrome...
     
  11. Neo-Luddite

    Neo-Luddite Member

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    When you send off for your application pack on the ATF website, in about ten days you will get all the info.

    Long story short--spend the 2 hours and 30 bucks--the type 3 FFL has MANY collateral bennefits depending on where you live. This has been discussed in great detail on THR many times. You'll likely save the 30 bucks on your first order with discounts offered to FFL holders by many companies.
     
  12. CajunBass

    CajunBass Member

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    I save more than the thirty dollars with my first order by not having to pay FFL fees for a couple of SKS's I ordered.
     
  13. Trebor

    Trebor Member

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    Yes, you have to get certain identifying info, such as DL info or their C&R license number if they are a C&R, when you sell to a private individual. You have to record their name and that info in your bound book.
     
  14. Chrome

    Chrome Member

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    Okay, that's not unreasonable. Just wanted to see if the current laws applied to the sale or if there were additional.

    Later,
    Chrome...
     
  15. SnakeEater

    SnakeEater Member

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    It is worth it even if you don't use it for firearms. The discounts at certain places are substantial. Any of you get in on the $115 CZ-52's yesterday?
     
  16. wdlsguy

    wdlsguy Member

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    A C&R license allows you to transport C&R destructive devices, machineguns, short-barreled shotguns, and short-barreled rifles interstate without an approved Application to Transport Interstate. ;)
     
  17. Borderpath

    Borderpath Member

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    I called the BATF about a C&R license and requested a kit. They told me not to use the downloadable forms I found online. I assume the forms have changed somewhat. I hate having to wait to receive the forms, but I guess it's better to do it right the first time.
     
  18. Neo-Luddite

    Neo-Luddite Member

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    It won't take long--they're fast (forms took 10 days to get to my place from ATF). The forms will take a couple of hours to fill out (you have to do 2 sets--one for your cleo and one for ATF).
     
  19. garymc

    garymc Member

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    What $115 CZ 52's?

    Where did you see CZ52's for $115?
     
  20. aaronrkelly

    aaronrkelly Member

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    Nah, I got in on the $90 CZ52s about 1 year ago.....
     
  21. rritter

    rritter Member

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    One way I've heard (from THR, so take that for what it's worth) is that the chief LEO you need to send a copy of the application to is the guy in charge of whoever shows up if you call 911. If you get city police, send it to the chief. If you get sheriff's deputies, send it to the sheriff. In my case it was easy since I live in an unincorporated county area - sheriff it is.
     
  22. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    I refuse to get one. In part because of the federal paperwork hassle, but mostly because you don't move next to the liquor store if you're a drunk! I wouldn't have ANY money left.
     
  23. Black Adder LXX

    Black Adder LXX Member

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    I tried to send forms that I downloaded from cruffler.com and they got bounced back, and I had to start over, getting the forms from ATF.
     
  24. AZAndy
    • Contributing Member

    AZAndy Member

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    Thanks, Bruce333, for that link. You nudged me into ordering the form by allowing me to not have to search for it. Navigating government websites really brings me down. (Had to track down some state tax law once and actually found two different answers on the same site...whoo boy.)

    Andy
     
  25. jim314

    jim314 Member

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    Yep, thanks Bruce. some of us just have to be lead by the hand to get things done. I ordered one too.
     
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