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Curio & Relics ATF hassle?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by stchman, Oct 7, 2009.

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  1. stchman

    stchman Member

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    Hello all.

    I am in the process of getting my C&R liscense. I like to collect WWII firearms (Mosins, Mausers, etc.). I have heard folks saying that they are getting hassled by the BATFE regularly.

    Is this common? Once you are a C&R can the BATFE come to your house whenever they like?

    I also had a guy tell me that if you did not dot an 'i' or cross a 't' that the BATFE will fine you heavily. Is this also true.

    I am just doing this so I don't have to go to the local pawn shop for FFL transfers.

    Thanks.
     
  2. Gordon

    Gordon Member

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    Yes on all your question!
     
  3. Ed Ames

    Ed Ames Member

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    :rolleyes:

    I'm about 3 years licensed. No hassles, no fines, no visits to the house.
     
  4. pbratton

    pbratton Member

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    I'm an FFL and have been checked.

    It's really pretty simple, follow the rules, keep the proper records and you'll be fine.
     
  5. Shadow 7D

    Shadow 7D Member

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    The ATF isn't hassling C&R anymore than they ever did, most of the post, if you searched were from non licenced people.

    Second, The ATF has the right (and legal duty) to inspect you bound book AND collection when ever they want by calling you and arranging to inspect your firearms, during usual business hours when convenient for you OR BY ARRANGING FOR YOU TO BRING YOUR COLLECTION TO THE NEAREST BAFTE OFFICE

    SO no

    If you are not in compliance then you will have to come into compliance, they send you all the applicable rules and laws

    As for the fines, you are responsible, but I haven't ever heard of a C&R getting fined for a procedural error.

    Finally, you cannot engage in the business of gun dealing, and only can purchase those firearms that are on the BAFTE list of Curio's and Relics OR are over 50 years old.

    So if you want to avoid the transfer fee, I hope you like old stuff.
     
  6. wally

    wally Member

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    I'm happy with just the MidWay dealer discount that my C&R gets me.

    The Romanian TT-33 and Ukranian "sniper" Mosin ain't bad either.

    --wally.
     
  7. kingpin008

    kingpin008 Member

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    :rolleyes:
     
  8. cane

    cane Member

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    I've had my C&R license for almost 12 yrs, never had a call or visit from ATF.
     
  9. CoRoMo

    CoRoMo Member

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    I've been told that they are limited to one scheduled inspection per year. Unless, of course, an inspection turns up something suspicious. Don't quote me on this though.

    Um... no; to all the questions.
     
  10. Neo-Luddite

    Neo-Luddite Member

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    The ATF will send you a nice thick packet of info. Y-O-U must read and abide by the policies and regs.

    Not hard to do at all. If you don't understand something, contact ATF.

    If you approach the ATF as an advesary and NOT as a legitimate agency--guess what--you'll likely have a rougher time. I imagine that, in this tough economy, earning those nice big fed gov pay checks by doing type 3 compliance checks is pretty nice compared to say, kicking down doors and getting shot at.

    Remember--ATF agents are *just* Joes and Janes trying to reach that pension at the end of the day. If all the type 3's get fed up, we can just send our licenses in or not renew and 'easy gig' is over, right? I mean, I don't earn money with my C&R--it's just for fun. It's a hobby.
     
  11. spartywrx

    spartywrx Member

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    I have to warn you

    I have been visited multiple times by men in uniform over the past 2 years I've had mine.

    Brown shirts visited me just last week and I had to sign a bunch of forms to make them leave. They were persistent and refused to compromise.












    Did I mention they worked for UPS? :neener:
    Getting guns straight to your door is awesome.



    Get the license. Its really easy. Plus Midway and Brownell's give good discounts

    What Shadow said is true. I am looking at the book of regulations they send you and you have two options
    A.) Allow the agent to visit you at home. They will contact you in advance and set it up at your convenience. They will compare your bound book to your C&R rifles.
    B.) Request to do the same at their office.

    I've heard of people getting inspected, but you probably have a better chance of winning the lotto than getting inspected.
     
  12. DMF

    DMF Member

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    :rolleyes: The Industry Operations Investigators (formerly called Inspectors) do the compliance inspections, and the Special Agents do enforcement operations. So the whole premise of that statements is complete nonsense.
     
  13. Neo-Luddite

    Neo-Luddite Member

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    No, really , it's not in the larger sense of easy vs. hard sub-sets of the same agency that will at days end get (mostly) the same pay and bennies--right? That was my point--not that ALL ATF agents worked in the same sub-section or specialty area of their agency on some rotational basis.

    If you want to split hairs about how ATF is structured, fine---that wasn't my overall point and I'm sure that you know it by looking at the overall context and tone of my post.

    So, with that, YES! You are correct , sir!
     
  14. DMF

    DMF Member

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    Actually no. The Special Agents get Law Enforcement Availability Pay and are under the ATC/Firefighter/LE retirement plan, both of which the Industry Operations Investigators do not.

    My point, which I guess you missed is that the folks doing criminal enforcement can't decide it's easy/safer to inspections, and simply do those instead of working criminal cases. However, regardless of you backpedaling you did not understand that when you made the post I responded to.

    However, as BOTH of your posts indicate you have no real understanding of how that agency operates, so it's no surprise that you made such an ignorant assumption about ATF operations.
     
  15. stevelyn

    stevelyn Member

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    I don't don't have much good.............er any good to say about the waffen BATFEces, but they do tend not to bother much with us C&R holders, and on one occassion seemed downright helpful.
     
  16. chuckusaret

    chuckusaret member

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    I have never been bothered by the BATF. If you are law abiding and keep your book up there should be no problem. They did pay me a visit when a pallet of assorted ammo that I bought on line from one dealer was delivered to my house. No problem after I explained it was a group buy by ten guys.
     
  17. Neo-Luddite

    Neo-Luddite Member

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    However, as BOTH of your posts indicate you have no real understanding of how that agency operates, so it's no surprise that you made such an ignorant assumption about ATF operations.

    Oh well, I guess they'll revoke my 'jr. agent' membership card. Again, you're correct.

    My point was that type-3's shouldn't worry if they are 1) abiding by the rules 2) treating agents like normal decents folks doing a job like anyone else.

    My point, which I guess you missed is that the folks doing criminal enforcement can't decide it's easy/safer to inspections, and simply do those instead of working criminal cases.

    I never said I thought they 'had a choice'---but I would venture that many are happy to be working the safer duty. Sure, some aren't, too.
    Again, mea culpa.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2009
  18. CajunBass

    CajunBass Member

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    I got a letter from the ATF a few times. I suspect everybody else who has an FFL of any kind got them about the same time.
     
  19. Shrevy

    Shrevy Member

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    chuckusaret:
    "I have never been bothered by the BATF. If you are law abiding and keep your book up there should be no problem. They did pay me a visit when a pallet of assorted ammo that I bought on line from one dealer was delivered to my house. No problem after I explained it was a group buy by ten guys."

    I do not hold a C&R so I am new to this. How did the BATF know you were getting the ammo? Do you have to report ammo purchases as a C&R?

    Also, what happens to your bound book if you end your C&R license (or let it expire after 3 years)? BATF requires an FFL to send their book to the BATF after exiting the business. Is this the same for C&R? Do you destroy your records after a certain time?
     
  20. Ed Ames

    Ed Ames Member

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    Whatever Chuck was talking about had nothing to do with a C&R.

    C&R's are not required to send their bound book(s). Otherwise the recordkeeping requirements are (IIRC, and I haven't re-read the book recently) standard for all FFLs.
     
  21. RioShooter

    RioShooter Member

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    This may be true, but I had one unscheduled and unannounced visit. Two agents showed-up at my front door while I was at work. They left some info with my wife, that could have been mailed, and then left.

    At that time, my 03 FFL was only two years old, and I had purchased two rifles with it.

    I live on the border and the agents were from the Houston office. My guess is that they were down here because of the large number of straw purchases that end-up in Mexico.
     
  22. rocky branch

    rocky branch Member

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    I've had mine over 10 years with no problems of any kind with any ATF issues.

    One commercial site told me "we do not honor C&Rs"
    "F" them-plenty more who will.
    It has been very helpful in emptying my wallet at shows, sales, and shops.

    What's wrong with crossing "T"s and dotting "I"s?

    Like looking both ways crossing the street.
     
  23. stchman

    stchman Member

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    I have decided that I am going to get the liscense, not buy anything for a couple of months, and see if I get hassled.

    If I don't than I will start buying some C&R eligible firearms.
     
  24. Schutzen

    Schutzen Member

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    I have met two "gentlemen" who were routinely hassled by the ATF about their C&R FFL's. Both were trying to use the C&R FFL as a license to buy and sell firearms. It is not, it is a license to collect. If you do what you are supposed to with a C&R License, the ATF will not bother you. They can inspect your records, but even before I had a C&R FFL I kept records of my firearms and my trades.
     
  25. tulsamal

    tulsamal Member

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    I've renewed twice. Never been contacted by ATF except for the info packets and letters they send out occasionally.

    I'm sure something "odd" happens on occasion but the number one issue with the C&R seems to be "you are not in the business of buying and selling guns." If you buy five rifles and pick out the best one for your collection and then sell the other four, that's legal. But if you do that over and over and over again, it looks like you are actually after the profits of selling those "guns you didn't want." Especially if you advertise or buy tables at gun shows to sell them!

    I've bought quite a few C&R guns over the years. I've never sold any. So nothing recovered at a crime scene is ever going to be traced back to me.

    And, as others said, the number one benefit is being treated like a dealer by some online stores. I love logging on to Midway or Grafs or Brownells and watching the prices drop! Of course I then spend even more money since things are such good deals!!

    Gregg
     
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