Curious about Mental Illness Denials

[WardenWolf]

Wardenwolf, I'm sorry to hear that. That example makes a lot more sense to me.

I hope you're working to remove custody and/or decision making away from the abuser.

Unfortunately I do not live in the same state, and while I have contacted authorities multiple times, nothing much has come of it, though they are loosely watching her. She's nowhere near as bad as she used to be, though. Normally she's fine. I talk to him on Skype so I hear what goes on in the background. She definitely has a skewed view of cause and effect, though, specifically refusing to link her behavior to his response. I'd adopt him if I could, and I've told him as such. At least it offers some comfort that someone out there cares.

 

[cskny]

Quote:
Originally Posted by cskny
Wardenwolf, I'm sorry to hear that. That example makes a lot more sense to me.

I hope you're working to remove custody and/or decision making away from the abuser.
Unfortunately I do not live in the same state, and while I have contacted authorities multiple times, nothing much has come of it, though they are loosely watching her. She's nowhere near as bad as she used to be, though. Normally she's fine. I talk to him on Skype so I hear what goes on in the background. She definitely has a skewed view of cause and effect, though, specifically refusing to link her behavior to his response. I'd adopt him if I could, and I've told him as such. At least it offers some comfort that someone out there cares.


That just sucks. And as a non-biological party (I interpreted from "adopt"), you are probably between a rock and a hard place. That poor kid is going to have to deal with the damage for a long time, letting him know (over and over) that you care probably means a lot more to him then we as adults even appreciate.

You certainly don't need advice from me because I'm sure you already do this, but try and record/document whatever you legally can. In the end, you don't know what's going to happen tomorrow and how he might need your help. I feel for you, and him.

 

[leadaddict]

The person in question simply checked himself into the local hospital (a normal hospital) in the middle of the night, driven there by a friend. All of his treatment was there. But it was listed as a treatment for a mental condition and that was enough to trigger the loss of his FOID card.

 

[cskny]

The person in question simply checked himself into the local hospital (a normal hospital) in the middle of the night, driven there by a friend. All of his treatment was there. But it was listed as a treatment for a mental condition and that was enough to trigger the loss of his FOID card.


OK. I'm still guessing his "diagnosis" was the problem, not simply his presence at the 'normal' hospital.

Or maybe he was just a victim of an unfair system. Don't know, and HIPAA isn't going to let us know.

 

[scrood?]

"I had a x girlfriend tell the cops I was suicidal which landed me in a mental institution for observation for the least amount of time possible before they released me with no mental disorder diagnosis. I can buy firearms, but have yet to find out if I can get my concealed carry permit (will find out feb 24 though). "


Titan, this is EXACTLY what happened to me (48 hour hold). I can buy firearms no problem. However we'll see about my ccw permit as well, I should find out very soon, I applied about 3 weeks ago. I did get diagnosed with mental depression however and asked to seek counseling for a month. There are cases in federal court where this type is thing is NOT a disqualifier for firearms purchase however.

The law states "not have been found mentally ill and dangerous in the past 10 years". It goes on to say "EPC (Emergency protective custody AKA suicide watch)". does no count.

Not sure what that applies to me, they don't either. I do not even know if I was found mentally ill and dangerous (if this is what they mean by depression). However, regardless, I waited for that 10 year mark for 4 years (this was in early oct 2000) to pass and so I applied 3 weeks ago, figuring either way, if doesn't count or it does, it is out of scope.

The main issue i have is the application asks "Have you EVER been found mentally ill and dangerous". To which I felt compelled to answer Yes just in case I was found that way. However, the state statute clearly indicates in the past 10 years, the question does not mention this. There is a question about crimes of violence on there as well, worded "have you ever been convited of a crime of violence" but the statute says "in the past 10 years". My guess is they know they have to research it if you answer yes, and it does not auto disqualify.

Fortunately I live in a shall issue state, so if they deny me they have to prove I had formal treatments etc and that will have to become a standard. When I talked the attorney for the state patrol years ago, he said in worst case I'll have to go get cleared by a phsyc. But I will now argue the 10 year limitation.

Here is a link to the app I had to fill out.
http://statepatrol.nebraska.gov/forms/ccw/CCW_NSP1710_Application.pdf

Here's the rules and regs I referred to, which mirrors the statute:
http://statepatrol.nebraska.gov/forms/ccw/CCWRegs.pdf

Page 4, search for "mental", the rule is 005.01F

The action brought against me is called the EPC (Emergency protective custody).

Another interesting thing is this, if I took myself to the hospital, to be treated, does that not count a voluntary comittment?

This rule, seems to mention the federal statute, which I am hoping it is the SAME standard, and if it is then I am good to go.

A promising thing for me is this:
http://www.wowt.com/home/headlines/34057994.html

The chief of police talks about how hes worried someone they took into EPC a few years earlier got a permit. So people are getting them even though they have an EPC.

Same town, something scary, guy gets arrested for lying on the app, which is why I answered that question YES.
http://journalstar.com/news/local/article_a6b9c6f1-f03a-5c66-9b55-fd78014001a6.html

What do you guys think, am I good to go?

 

[WardenWolf]

Quote:
Originally Posted by cskny
Wardenwolf, I'm sorry to hear that. That example makes a lot more sense to me.

I hope you're working to remove custody and/or decision making away from the abuser.
Unfortunately I do not live in the same state, and while I have contacted authorities multiple times, nothing much has come of it, though they are loosely watching her. She's nowhere near as bad as she used to be, though. Normally she's fine. I talk to him on Skype so I hear what goes on in the background. She definitely has a skewed view of cause and effect, though, specifically refusing to link her behavior to his response. I'd adopt him if I could, and I've told him as such. At least it offers some comfort that someone out there cares.


That just sucks. And as a non-biological party (I interpreted from "adopt"), you are probably between a rock and a hard place. That poor kid is going to have to deal with the damage for a long time, letting him know (over and over) that you care probably means a lot more to him then we as adults even appreciate.

You certainly don't need advice from me because I'm sure you already do this, but try and record/document whatever you legally can. In the end, you don't know what's going to happen tomorrow and how he might need your help. I feel for you, and him.

At least his mother has accepted that I'm not a threat to him, although that took some convincing (understandable when an adult befriends someone his age). I have my cellphone text message logs and my Skype text logs, though I'm out luck with the voice conversations. She allows him to use her cellphone to call me. Overall I've established a semi-positive dialog with her, although she's still always convinced she's right.

 

[hermannr]

Interesting the reg says 10 years, but the app says ever? Is there a section to "explain" if you answer any of these questions affiratively?"

If the app is more strict than the reg, I would expect an "explain" section..

 

[randytrapper]

My buddy here in PA was acting strange and talking about killing himself so his wife called the police. He was involintarly committed for 72 hrs. Then released. When he went to apply for his 5 year renewal he was turned down. The way I understood it is, if he would have agreed to go to the hospital he would not have been denied. But since it was involuntary they would not re-issue to him. At least that's what he told me.
Some how that info must get shared?
In my opinion he probably should not be carrying. BUT, if he was going to do something stupid he would.. With or without the permit.

 

[scrood?]

randy, how long before the renewal was he taken in? mines been over 10 years ago.

 

[randytrapper]

It was about 2 years if memory serves me correctly. In PA our permits are good for 5 years unless revoked. In his case, it's not like they came and took it after his issues. But when he tried to renew they denied him. And it was probably 2 years later.

 

[scrood?]

I bet if he waits long enough he can get it back.

 

[chrisg511]

question i have been diagnosed with a mental illness, and typically have thoughts of suicide 24/7, this having been said i have my own reasoning to not act on these thoughts anyways, i was thinking about getting a CCW in Xenia, Ohio when i am old enough(i am almost 20, so i believe another year to go) but unsure if my disabilities would be considered mentally defective or not? if anyone could give me some insight that would be wonderful? thanks a ton chris511

 

[MtnSpur]

question i have been diagnosed with a mental illness, and typically have thoughts of suicide 24/7, this having been said i have my own reasoning to not act on these thoughts anyways, i was thinking about getting a CCW in Xenia, Ohio when i am old enough(i am almost 20, so i believe another year to go) but unsure if my disabilities would be considered mentally defective or not? if anyone could give me some insight that would be wonderful? thanks a ton chris511

In Texas if you have been diagnosed with a mental illness you are not eligible to apply for a CCW (CHL here in TX).

A website search of CCW/CHL laws for states will direct you to the exact definition of that particular state's qualifications/disqualifications for this criteria as well as the right to own or buy weapons as well.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

chrisg511 - I'm unfamiliar with Ohio law and can't answer your question. Sorry.

In Texas if you have been diagnosed with a mental illness you are not eligible to apply for a CCW (CHL here in TX).

That is not correct. Simply being diagnosed with a mental illness does not prevent you from applying for a Texas CHL.

For the record, Texas Government Code 411.172 describes the eligibility requirements for CHL. The two sections that would concern people with mental illness are 411.172(a)(7) which requires a person "is not incapable of exercising sound judgment with respect to proper use and storage of a handgun"

This section is further elaborated upon at GC 411.172(d)-(f) which describes the following psychiatric issues as being disqualifying:

Originally Posted by GC 411.172(d) and (e)
(1) has been diagnosed by a licensed physician as suffering from a psychiatric disorder or condition that causes or is likely to cause substantial impairment in judgment, mood, perception, impulse control or intellectual ability;
(2) suffers from a psychiatric disorder or condition described by Subdivision (1) that:
(A) is in remission but is reasonably likely to redevelop at a duture time; or
(B) requires continuous medical treatment to avoid redevelopment;
(3) has been diagnosed by a licensed physician or declared by a court to be incompetent to manage the person's own affairs
(4) has entered in a criminal proceeding a plea of not guilty by reason of insanity

(e) The following constitutes evidence that a person has a psychiatric disorder or condition described by Subsection (d)(1):
(1) involuntary psychiatric hospitalization in the preceding five-year period;
(2) psychiatric hospitalization in the preceding two-year period;
(3) inpatient or residential substance abuse treatment in the preceding five-year period;
(4) diagnosis in the preceding five-year period by a licensed physician that the person is dependent on alcohol, a controlled substance, or a similar substance; OR
(5) diagnosis at any time by a licensed physician that the person suffers or has suffered from a psychiatric disorder or condition consisting of or relating to:
(A) schizophrenia or delusional disorder;
(B) bipolar disorder;
(C) chronic dementia, whether caused by illness, brain defect, or brain injury;
(D) dissociative identity disorder;
(E) intermittent explosive disorder; or
(F) antisocial personality disorder

Subdivision F goes on to explain that (e) is merely evidence and may be overcome by a certificate from a physician explaining that the condition is in remission and not likely to be develop at a future time.

CAVEAT: This was originally in PDF format, so I had to type it in myself. You probably want to go to read the relevant Government Code yourself just in case I mistyped something.

 

[MtnSpur]

I was referring to:

Originally Posted by GC 411.172(d) and (e)
(1) has been diagnosed by a licensed physician as suffering from a psychiatric disorder or condition that causes or is likely to cause substantial impairment in judgment, mood, perception, impulse control or intellectual ability;

So perhaps I should have been more specific, my apologies.

When it comes to mental impairment there are so many "instances, inclusions and exclusions" it does present an arguement for the state to deny application. Anyone can "apply" but whether that application is accepted is another issue and I'm certainly not legally qualified for that.

 

[NavyLCDR]

question i have been diagnosed with a mental illness, and typically have thoughts of suicide 24/7, this having been said i have my own reasoning to not act on these thoughts anyways, i was thinking about getting a CCW in Xenia, Ohio when i am old enough(i am almost 20, so i believe another year to go) but unsure if my disabilities would be considered mentally defective or not? if anyone could give me some insight that would be wonderful? thanks a ton chris511

Here is the requirement for the CHL:
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.125

(i) The applicant has not been adjudicated as a mental defective, has not been committed to any mental institution, is not under adjudication of mental incompetence, has not been found by a court to be a mentally ill person subject to hospitalization by court order, and is not an involuntary patient other than one who is a patient only for purposes of observation. As used in this division, “mentally ill person subject to hospitalization by court order” and “patient” have the same meanings as in section 5122.01 of the Revised Code.

Unless you have a court's determination that you are mentally ill, you should be good to go. If you were involuntarily committed to a mental hospital on a temporary basis for evaluation and were released at the required hearing, you should be good to go because:

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/5122.141

(A) A respondent who is involuntarily placed in a hospital or other place as designated in section 5122.10 or 5122.17 of the Revised Code, or with respect to whom proceedings have been instituted under section 5122.11 of the Revised Code, shall be afforded a hearing to determine whether or not the respondent is a mentally ill person subject to hospitalization by court order. The hearing shall be conducted pursuant to section 5122.15 of the Revised Code.

(B) The hearing shall be conducted within five court days from the day on which the respondent is detained or an affidavit is filed, whichever occurs first, in a physical setting not likely to have a harmful effect on the respondent, and may be conducted in a hospital in or out of the county. On the motion of the respondent, his counsel, the chief clinical officer, or on its own motion, and for good cause shown, the court may order a continuance of the hearing. The continuance may be for no more than ten days from the day on which the respondent is detained or on which an affidavit is filed, whichever occurs first. Failure to conduct the hearing within this time shall effect an immediate discharge of the respondent. If the proceedings are not reinstituted within thirty days, all records of the proceedings shall be expunged.

(C) If the court does not find that the respondent is a mentally ill person subject to hospitalization by court order, it shall order his immediate discharge, and shall expunge all record of the proceedings during this period.