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Cylinder Stop Over Extends

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by Sagetown, Jun 26, 2008.

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  1. Sagetown

    Sagetown Member

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    I've had this 1860 .44 Army Colt replica for years, and it works fine.
    But it has a small glitch. I noticed that the 'Bolt Head' rises too high without the cylinder being in place to stop it. I have to press down on the 'Bolt Head' just a little to make fingers slide off the 'Hammer Cam' into their normal position.


    Is there something I can do to make the action work properly when the gun is stripped down like this?

    Sage
     
  2. Smokin_Gun

    Smokin_Gun Member

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    It's not locked in place but out of battery some is it? What it seems like is that the clyinder is blowing by the bolt... If the bolt is not dropping down at half cock and you have to press it down to do so, first back off the bolt/trigger spring about a 1/4 turn, no more than half. While you are doing that check the frame window for the bolt for burrs or sharp edges that may keep the bolt from dropping(ie binding or catching). Check bolt width to cyl slot, check bolt height to slot. IF all these are good go to the bolt ears and Hammer/bolt cam. Check slanted cam on hammer for burrs or wear, check bolt ears (broken/worn). Check top of trigger for rolled material /wear and that it's flat and fits the first hammer notch. Check bolt screw bent or worn check trigger screw bent or worn. Hand should be checked only for burrs or raised material before testing the length or height of it. That's all I can think of...replace bad parts or deburr/lightly file and stone, reharden if aplicable.


    SG
     
  3. Sagetown

    Sagetown Member

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    :) Thanks SG for replying to my post....

    Let me back up here some, because I was too brief in my explanation, " the 'Bolt Head' rises too high without the cylinder being in place to stop it.

    What I meant was, "after the Cylinder is removed off the Base Pin from the Frame, the 'Bolt Head' rises too high ". When I replace the Cylinder, the action works fine.

    But after cleaning the gun, and replacing the bolt, trigger, and hammer, and springs, I can't get the action to work properly until I replace the Cylinder.

    I can take apart my other 1860 Army, and its action works okay. Just can't figure out why this one doesn't.

    Sage
     
  4. sundance44s

    sundance44s Member

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    Is the bolt dropping all the way down at half cock ?
     
  5. Sagetown

    Sagetown Member

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    sundance44s Quote: "Is the bolt dropping all the way down at half cock ? "

    :) Yep ! The Cylinder doesn't have a scratch on it from bolt dragging. It isn't a problem when the gun is completely assembled.

    Only when its disassembled do I notice the Bolt jumping up through the Frame Window to high, causing the action to lock-up.


    It has to have the Cylinder mounted in order to function correctly.

    Sage
     
  6. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    It can be fixed, but it might take a new bolt. The part of the bolt that sticks up through the frame is called the "ball." In front of the ball there is a step or ledge, extending from the front of the ball to the front of the bolt. This step prevents the ball from coming up too far.

    Occasionally someone files this step down, allowing the ball to come up higher. But since the bolt pivots on the bolt screw when the front goes up the back ("tail") goes down, and if it goes down too far it can't snap over the stud on the hammer. If you push down on the ball when the cylinder is removed the tail will snap into place and work normally for one cycle of the hammer. Thereafter you have to push on the ball again, and so on.

    When the cylinder is in place it keeps the ball from coming up too high and the gun works as it should.

    You have two options: You can push down on the ball sticking up through the frame until the tail snaps into place when the cylinder is not assembled, or you can spend the money to have a QUALIFIED gunsmith fit a new bolt. There is a remote chance he can get the present bolt to work, but I suspect that if it works while the cylinder is not assembled it won't work correctly when it is.
     
  7. scrat

    scrat Member

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    wow good info. after reading this now i know why i have a small scratch on mine.
     
  8. Jim K

    Jim K Member

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    If you are careful, you might correct the problem by taking out the bolt and peening the sides of that "step" Old Fuff mentioned. That might build it up enough to correct the problem. Otherwise a new bolt will be required and as Fuff said, it needs careful fitting.

    Jim
     
  9. Sagetown

    Sagetown Member

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    :)Old Fluff; you're smart as paint.

    Your are exactly right about your Quote: If you push down on the ball when the cylinder is removed the tail will snap into place and work normally for one cycle of the hammer. :)

    I'll take the bolt out and give it a good looking over. From what I've seen already, those parts have been touched up real good, so I have this feeling that your other statement may be correct also. QUOTE: but I suspect that if it works while the cylinder is not assembled it won't work correctly when it is.

    Jim; I'll keep that thought in mind also -- Jim's Quote: If you are careful, you might correct the problem by taking out the bolt and peening the sides of that "step" Old Fuff mentioned.

    Thanks Heaps Guys
    Sage :)

    p.s. Old Fluff: Thanks also for the 'gunsmith term of the Bolt "Ball". It looks like a head to me, but I'll go along with rules of terminology.
     
  10. Smokin_Gun

    Smokin_Gun Member

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    WHen you hold the bolt down with cly out does the bolt stay down at half cock, and when cyl is in place does it spin freely at half cock?
    Bacl off the screw to the bolt/trigger sping 1/4 turn.
    Is the main spring real stiff, back the srew at top off spring in grip off 1/4 turn too.

    I have expirianced that it's those two conditions usually and ill fix the problem...but all I listed above can pertain to your problem. It's a process of elimiation. Usually a simple burr in that bolt window of the frame.

    Those work for me as I have done several like that.

    Good luck with your endeavor to persevere:cool:

    SG
     
  11. Sagetown

    Sagetown Member

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    Thanks SG:
    I'm definitely going to have to sit down with this thing and do some tinkering via y'alls suggestions. If I get it all messed up, I can still take it to the 'SMITH' and let him fix it.:D:D:D

    Sage
     
  12. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    I have observed that in Colt's older six-shooters you don't have to loosen any screws - the gun will do that all by itself... :neener: :D
     
  13. Sagetown

    Sagetown Member

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    Quote "Old Fluff": I have observed that in Colt's older six-shooters you don't have to loosen any screws - the gun will do that all by itself... :neener::D

    AIN'T THAT the truth ! :eek::rolleyes::p:D

    Sage
     
  14. sundance44s

    sundance44s Member

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    LOL thats why I take a big magnet to the range with me in my tool box ..Used it more than once to find a trigger guard screw in the grass .
     
  15. Smokin_Gun

    Smokin_Gun Member

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    Sage(lightbulb)

    Just thought of this and I hope it is just that simple...did you put the same screw back it the same place (trigger screw in trigger, bolt screw in bolt) sometimes it can make a differance.
    I had a brand new rev, the one scew was just tweaked enough that it either raided the bolt or lowwered the trigger. Look at the wear marks on the screws they will match the 2 rub marks for the bolt screw or 1 rub mark off to the right on the screw for the trigger..switch um and see it it helps. the que was that you said took apart and clean, reassembled.

    Hope it works,
    SG
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2008
  16. Sagetown

    Sagetown Member

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    Smokin Gun; that was the very first thought that came to my mind when I was putting it back together and it locked up.

    I switched the screws, and spent the better part of an hour just taking it apart and putting it back together. Going over the Bolt Fingers, and checking the trigger notches, and hammer cam. It's really a puzzle to me. That's why I finally came here, so you guys could give me some clues.

    So I'll spend some time giving all your ideas to this matter.

    Thanks again...:)
     
  17. K.A.T.

    K.A.T. Member

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    Don,t shoot it any more!

    That gun could increase the Global Warming that is going on. Put it in a box and ship it to me right now.:D
     
  18. Sagetown

    Sagetown Member

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    :DTE:DHE:DHehe:D
    Now K.A.T. I couldn't do that to you! I'd feel bad thinking of all the fun you'd be havin' :) working on it. :p Bsides that, :rolleyes: it's to purdy to part with. :D
     
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