CZ-52 hammer drop warning.

[M2 Carbine]

I posted this on another web site (GT) but I thought it was important enough to post it again.

Damn that was loud.....

....or why I don't like hammer drop safeties.

Yesterday in my gun shop I emptied and reloaded a CZ-52 that had been laying on my reloading bench for a month or so.
The gun had been a car gun and was loaded with reloads using a JHP Hornady XTP bullet. A good defense load.

For no special reason except to just check the gun, I removed the magazine and ejected the chambered round.
I looked the gun over then fully reloaded it.
Then I used the hammer drop safety to drop the hammer.
The gun fired.
Damn that was loud. My left ear drum is still sore.


The bad news.
1. The hammer drop "safety" failed. (I don't know why yet.)

2. There's a hole clean through my shop wall.

3. My left ear drum still hurts.

4 My trust in the CZ-52 is now low (I have two).



The good news.
1. There's a hole in ONLY the shop wall. There is a LOT of stuff, including 50 cal cans of ammo that the bullet could have hit but the bullet found a clear path to the bare wall.

2. The bullet did not hit me. I was sitting and while (of course) I didn't have the gun pointed at myself it's a scary thought what might have happened if that bullet hit my knee.

3. Coming out the outside wall the bullet missed the electric cable by a quarter inch. (That Hornady bullet made a respectable hole in the metal wall)

4. The barn is a couple yards behind the shop. I couldn't find the bullet hole in the barn wall (the barn is full of stuff that doesn't take kindly to fast moving bullets).
Finally I saw where the bullet blasted into the dirt just under the barn wall.



Since I mostly lower the hammer on all my guns manually, when I last loaded this gun I may not have used the HDS. It's possible that I never used the HDS on this gun. Well, I damn sure will never use it again.



I did a fast Goggle search and immediately found that the CZ-52 firing when the HDS is used isn't uncommon. Now I find that out.

So, if you have a C-52 watch for this problem.

 

[T Bran]

Thanks for the warning glad you were not permanently injured.
Even on my Sigs those things have never had my full confidence if I cant point it down range the hammer gets lowered manually.
T

 

[Evil Monkey]

I don't think the comm block pistols have a firing pin block like western pistols.

With pistols that have a firing pin block, it's impossible to fire the gun while using a decocker.

edit: My mistake, apparently the cz52 does have a firing pin block after doing some research. I wonder how this pistol fired....

Is the firing pin block spring broken? Might want to check that out.

 

[kozak6]

CZ52's are well known for the risk of an accidental discharge.

They make a lot of the pencil test on other forums. Unload the pistol, cock it, drop a pencil down the unloaded barrel, and activate the decocker. If the decocker works, not much happens. If it doesn't, the pencil flies across the room.

Many pistols have actually been fixed at the factory to prevent this. Pistols that have been fixed should have a Z stamp on the bottom of the trigger guard. It may also be possible to have the importer fix it for you

Another possibility is that the pistol had an aftermarket target trigger, which disables the drop safety for a much nicer trigger pull.

 

[Drail]

NEVER trust any "hammer drop safety". EXPECT the gun to fire EVERY time you drop the hammer. Most won't but there are more than a few documented cases. I have read a number of accounts where a police officer was covering a suspect while his partner cuffed them and when the hammer was dropped the suspect was shot. OOOPS. In these cases the officer holding the gun was absolutely confident that the gun would never fire when using the hammer drop feature. Expect the worst and point the gun at something you don't care about.

 

[JohnKSa]

I always use decocking levers when available. BUT, I also lower the hammer manually when using a decocking lever unless I'm at the range and can aim the gun at the berm/backstop. Safeties can fail.

 

[dev_null]

Good to know, thanks.

 

[fatcat4620]

I have heard many times not to trust the de-cocker on the CZ52. I never use mine unless I'm at the range and then I still don't like to use it.

 

[545days]

This is the #1 reason that the CZ52 is not more popular, and is the reason why people recommend against using a CZ52 for concealed carry.

This is also the reason that surplus guns come from the importer with a "have checked by a competent gunsmith before firing" disclaimer.

 

[rcmodel]

+1000.

The CZ-52 hammer drop defect has been well known since they first started importing them years ago. Also well known for breaking firing pins when dry fired.

rc

 

[stonecutter2]

This is pretty timely for me, just picked up a CZ52 cheap at an auction. I've got a replacement firing pin on the way, since the stock original shouldn't be dry fired.

I'm one who just plain doesn't like to lower a hammer at all on a loaded chamber. So i likely wouldn't have used it anyways. Still good to know!

 

[Robbins290]

I have two cz52's. I tryd the decockers. They function. But i would never trust them.

 

[Black Butte]

This is why it's so important to point your pistol in a safe direction. What if somebody had been on the other side of that wall?

 

[Shadow 7D]

+1000.

The CZ-52 hammer drop defect has been well known since they first started importing them years ago. Also well known for breaking firing pins when dry fired.

rc

Um, yeah, some basic research could have saved you a hole, sorry but,
decocker is used, but never on a live round, solely as a way to lower the hammer on an empty chamber.

 

[M2 Carbine]

This is why it's so important to point your pistol in a safe direction. What if somebody had been on the other side of that wall?

To be there they will already be over a hundred yards on my property. You don't do that around here unless you want to take the chance of being shot.

If they lived they will have learned a valuable lesson about not being where they don't belong.

 

[2wheels]

Well, nothing wrong with decockers in general (never heard of a modern Sig or Beretta failing, those are what I have experience with) and I use them all the time, but decockers on CZ52s? Those you need to be wary of...

 

[Black Butte]

This is why it's so important to point your pistol in a safe direction. What if somebody had been on the other side of that wall?

To be there they will already be over a hundred yards on my property. You don't do that around here unless you want to take the chance of being shot.

If they lived they will have learned a valuable lesson about not being where they don't belong.

There are dozens of reasons why somebody might be on your property:

(1) meter reader,
(2) kids taking a "short cut,"
(3) parcel delivery that needs to be signed for,
(4) solicitors,
(5) police canvasing neighborhood,
(6) etc.

Suggesting that good safety practices are unnecessary because nobody has any business on your property seems a bit irresponsible.

 

[nearmiss]

If your gun has had the firing pin replaced with one of the Harrington Products parts, the new FP comes with a warning that droping the hammer with the decocker will fire the gun. The Harrington firing pin is a good upgrade, it replaces the cast and prone to breakage FP with a tool steel part, and also improves the trigger pull considerably. I have installed them on both of my CZ52s, while I have the gun apart I always machine (you could file) the decocking tab off of the safety lever. The safety will still function, the decocker will not.

 

[Deaf Smith]

M2,

Long time ago Jeff Cooper wrote about how hammer drop safeties can crystallise and fail. I once had a S&W 39's safety crack in half and drop out (S&W made good and sent me a new one free.)

So when ever I use one, on a Mak, Bersa, S&W 6906, etc... I always point it in a save direction before using it.

But usually I use the mechanism and at the same time use my thumb to SLOWLY lower the hammer (the one exception is the SIG due to the ability to slowly lower it with the decocker.) But even then I point it in a safe direction when doing it.

Deaf

 

[bigfatdave]

Not to be a jerk ... but how is this the first time you heard of it?

The CZ52 I picked up had an iffy decocker when I got it, so I swapped to the Harrington pin and gave up the feature entirely. Somewhere here on THR there's a thread I started pondering how to neuter the feature right off the gun...
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=560440
one of these days I'll have a buddy with weld equipment do some re-working on a spare safety lever and it won't be able to travel up anymore (and hopefully won't be as rough on my thumb)

Yes, the CZ52 is a good gun, the only flaw I can think of is the decocker's design, it just isn't fail-safe, it is fail-BANG. I suppose the scarcity of magazines is another flaw.

For anyone searching through:
Normal frame-mounted safety levers have two positions, the up "more safe" and the down "less safe" position. The CZvz52 has a third position, above the "more safe", which is simply designed to drop the hammer in a controlled fashion and not damage the firing pin, if you have a round in the chamber, it is the "maybe safe" position. It depends on a spring loaded FP blocking plunger inside the slide, it can gunk up or the spring can fail. I can launch a pencil almost every time with mine, and fire a round in the chamber somewhere between 10% and 20% of the time ... at the range, into a safe backstop, on purpose. I will NEVER use the decocker feature as a safety mechanism, because I made it even worse by using the Harrington target pin, it was dangerous before, it is "Russian Roulette" now to use it.
http://harringtonproducts.com/firing-pins/

In a proper holster, with a method of preventing safety lever travel into the "maybe safe" uppermost position, the CZvz52 is actually quite safe. On mine, getting it into the uppermost position takes about triple the force of taking the lever between the two useful positions, so I don't worry about it much except to be careful when placing it into the middle "more safe" position.

 

[nearmiss]

The best way to avoid accidents is to eliminate the possibility altogether, and as I said above, modifying the safety to eliminate the decocking function altogether is a simple procedure.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Most modern guns with decockers AND firing pin block safeties generally don't have a problem with accidental discharges while decocking. That is certainly the case with the guns that require the trigger be pulled fully to the rear before the firing pin can move.

CZ-52s were notorious for decocker malfunctions. I never had one so never really paid attention to the details, but I thought there is a fix. A gun with a properly functioning decocker that can only be used when the gun is unloaded seems strange, to say the least. Why bother?

 

[dcarch]

I know you're gonna catch flak over this, but I for one want to thank you, M2, for having the guts to share your story and help educate others who might have a similar firearm. It takes a lot of courage to stand up and talk about a mistake. Now, in the case of explaining the hole in the wall to your significant other... You're on your own, man.

 

[Gordon]

I learned the decock routine by the trainers that taught LAPD the Beretta 92 routine. The pistol is properly decocked by pointing downward (unless not on ground floor , if there is not earth or concrete under you then use a discharge barrel or equivalent) which is the only safe method of decocking any firearm with such a feature. I like decockers tho I started late in life. My CZ 52 is just a milsurp novelty and I CERTAINLY will be even more careful after hearing this.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

I learned the decock routine by the trainers that taught LAPD the Beretta 92 routine. The pistol is properly decocked by pointing downward (unless not on ground floor , if there is not earth or concrete under you then use a discharge barrel or equivalent) which is the only safe method of decocking any firearm with such a feature.

I'm not familiar with the Beretta 92's decocking mechanism -- had one (and a 96) years ago, but never paid attention to the details -- but I suspect those guns also have a firing pin block mechanism. I seldom decocked -- just shot until empty (at the range.)

It's always a good idea to keep the gun pointed in a safe direction, when decocking or otherwise, but for most decocker guns with firing pin blocks, as long as you keep your finger away from the trigger, there's NOTHING in the decocking mechanism, even if it were to fail, that could cause the gun to fire. That said, using a discharge barrel, the ground, or concrete is NOT the only safe method to decock those decocker guns.

For nearly all guns with firing pin blocks, the firing pin is physically blocked until the trigger is pulled fully to the rear. There may be exceptions, and other forms of "firing pin safeties," and that's why you might want to investigate the details for any gun you own.

The trainers who taught that method to the LAPD may have just developed a technique that works with ALL guns used by the department.

The CZ-52 is certainly a DIFFERENT type of gun, in that regard -- with no firing pin block -- so extra care is certainly in order.
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