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CZ 75 Design Flaw?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by synapse, Jun 5, 2003.

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  1. synapse

    synapse Member

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    I may of discovered a design flaw in the CZ-75. After about 300 rounds of shooting, I have noticed that you have to take out the extractor and clean it thoroughly if it is not to stovepipe and/or fail to extract. NONE of my other pistols are so finicky.

    I spoke to CZ-USA about this matter and they have indeed agreed that a thorough cleaning of the extractor is merited.

    Yes, I know it is herasy to say anything negative about the CZ line, but I think I have a good point as none of my other pistols get so clogged up so fast.

    Any thoughts?
    Regards,
    Synapse
     
  2. Handy

    Handy Guest

    This has not been my experience with CZ clones, nor do many report stovepipes (and you can bet there are some dirty extractors out there).

    Next time you have it apart, look for dirt trapping sharp edges and examine the way it holds the case when dirty, then clean. A minor flaw might be contributing to the problem.
     
  3. CZ-75

    CZ-75 member

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    Haven't I seen this before on TFL or the CZ forum?

    IIRC, it generated more heat than light from the numerous CZ owners w/o this problem, who doubted there ever was a flaw.

    I've never had it and would ask for a new extractor from CZ were I having a problem.

    I would also polish and break any roughness that might be present on the hook where it contacts the rim. Dirt/residue won't stick as well to a smooth surface.
     
  4. George Hill

    George Hill Member

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    So if the same thing is true of the AR-15 Bolt and bolt carrier assembly, can we then call it a Design Flaw as well?

    :evil:
     
  5. TreeSquid

    TreeSquid Member

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    Design flaw? Maybe you should use more than one CZ-75 before you declare something a design flaw :p My friend's 75BD had no extractor problems, and my PCR has none, either. I'm inclined to think you just got unlucky. Or are using filthy ammo in just that gun :D
     
  6. Walt Sherrill

    Walt Sherrill Member

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    Design flaw? Probably not.

    Assembly problem or part flaw, perhaps.

    I'm on my fifth CZ, with 7+ K plus rounds through one of them, without the first extractor problem.

    The extractor design does lend itself to dirt and grunge building up behind the extractor, so that it doesn't close as tightly as it should.

    Preventive maintenance (ala cleaning with spray cleaner) will make it a non-issue.
     
  7. MoNsTeR

    MoNsTeR Member

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    I have a 75B and an 85 Combat, neither of them have this problem. I can shoot much more than 300 rounds without cleaning the extractor, with no failures.
     
  8. PCRCCW

    PCRCCW Member

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    Funny a design flaw is usually merit for a recall or sending out new parts with a warning....I havent heard of this yet.....:evil:

    And out of the 9 Cz's Ive had....all with extractors...I havent had to take one out for a thorough cleaning yet....One of my compacts did get finicky a while back but it wasnt an extractor problem.

    I have EASILY over 20K rounds through these guns without removing an extractor nor had a FTE of any kind..................

    I think some information may have not been conveyed correctly or the likes. We talk to Mike, Chris, CJ @ CZUSA etc on a weekly basis sometimes more. No problem of anykind on a consistant basis has EVER been brought up regarding the extractor...........................
    CZ thus far has had:
    A small run of slide stop problems...corrected.
    Extractor/spring problems..again corrected.
    The latest snaffoo is the plastic trigger on the SA.....
    Just a piss poor trigger design by my favorite gun company.

    And if somethings really wrong with the gun...its not herasy to bring it up. CZ's arent perfect by any means unless you ask me!

    They have as many problems as HK's and Sigs do :rolleyes: :D
    Although they do have more problems than typical movie gun...which has 500 rnd flush mounting mags and shoot without fail everytime :neener:

    Shoot well
     
  9. mainmech48

    mainmech48 Member

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    My EAA "Witness" CZ 75 clone has had over 7.5K rounds through it with no extraction failures. That includes one weekend DP class where over 900 rds went through it without cleaning at all.

    My CZ 97B .45 is at 3K, and has been as reliable as gravity, with the notable exception of one lot of 230 gr. TC lead bulllet reloads that wanted to hang up on the feed ramp. Five minutes with a felt bob and jewelers rouge on the ramp fixed that.

    If a good look with a 5-10X loupe doesn't show any obvious burrs or damage, I'd call Mike at CZ-USA. Their CS dept. is first-rate.

    From my own experience, and what I've seen and read on the CZ Forum this is anything but common. Calling it a "design flaw" when it's most likely ammo-related is a bit of a stretch, IMO.
     
  10. BevrFevr

    BevrFevr Member

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    I only get a barf when

    I shoot the gun relatively dry for 500 or so rounds without cleaning the entire gun let alone the extractor. A tap and a rack and it's going again.

    Mine will often only see a bore snake for many many rounds. It doesn't like after factory mags too much but they work.

    -bevr
     
  11. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    I am with Synapse, although I think the fault was as much in execution as design.
    My CZ75 "pre B" starting demanding frequent cleaning under the extractor to avoid malfs. Then it got to where it didn't matter whether it was clean or not. I replaced the extractor and spring and it now runs like a champ for many hundreds of rounds between cleanings under the extractor. It still needs to come out every once in a while, though. I suspect just a new stiff spring would have been enough but did not want to take a chance on a gun I shoot a good deal. Both were only $13. They might give you a set on guarantee, but at the time I did mine they had just had a rash of calls where everybody blamed everything on the extractor and wanted a new one for free.

    Call CZ USA and talk to Mike.

    Dirt under the extractor is a problem with any auto and I think the new generation of 1911 derivatives with pinned in external extractors will require extra attention to cleaning. And it takes tools to remove, with a teeny spring and pin to keep track of.
     
  12. DougB

    DougB Member

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    I've got two CZ75s (a full-sized and a PCR), and a good friend has a PCR. They've all been shot quite a lot over a period of years, mostly with inexpensive ammo. They are rarely cleaned. We haven't had any extractor (or other) problems. I don't doubt that individual guns may have specific problems, but I don't think this is a design flaw.

    Doug
     
  13. firestar

    firestar member

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    The MAJOR design flaw with the CZ-75 is that DA trigger. It is too far away for shooters with smaller hands to index properly. I would have a CZ-75 if it weren't for this problem. I had a CZ-40 that had the same problem. It works great for my friend who has longer fingers than me.
     
  14. BevrFevr

    BevrFevr Member

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    actually if I pick something as a design flaw it would have to be the safety. It sits too far forward for my stubby little thumb. I deal with it of course but I think I would suffer in IDPA. I may see if they will put one of those other race gun safeties on for me.

    The trigger is no 1911 or S&W 686 but it beats the hell out of many others. I think the real key to happiness with the trigger is using the right lubricants on the right surfaces.

    -bevr
     
  15. Walt Sherrill

    Walt Sherrill Member

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    Be wary: if you do get a race-gun safety installed, you'll have to compete in the Enhanced Service Pistol Division -- which is the toughest division. (See the rule book, page 11.)
     
  16. MoNsTeR

    MoNsTeR Member

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    If you're using the thumb safety at all, you're in ESP already. In SSP you have to start DA.
     
  17. Walt Sherrill

    Walt Sherrill Member

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    Hah! Brain fart on my part.

    (Unless you're shooting a Witness CZ-clone, which allows safety on with hammer down <grin>. Several guys on the CZ Forum, in the Clone area, claim that's the way they carry... That would still be SSP. <grin>)

    The thing I'd like to have, and its absolutely not allowed, is an oversize, extended mag release...

    Someone suggested that the long trigger reach was a design flaw. Nope. It is what it is.

    If it doesn't fit your hand, you find one that does. Lots of folks don't shoot Berettas 'cause they're too big. But that doesn't make the "bigness" a design flaw.

    But the fact that the CZ can be shot cocked and locked offsets the "flaw" a bit.
     
  18. euclid

    euclid Member

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    I don't know if this is an isolated case but my P01 will NOT extract the Win bulk pack 9mm ammo. Everything else seems to extract ok. I compared the extracted brass from the bulk pack ammo to other brands of brass (i.e. Speer, Rem, etc.) and I notice that the extraction groove on the WW bulk pack stuff is not as deep as the extraction grooves found on the other brands of brass I examined. My only conclusion is that the extractor on my P01 is not tuned well enough to handle the shallower extraction groove found on the WW bulk pack 9mm ammo. That's too bad because I bought the P01 to shoot cheap factory ammo and that WW stuff is about as cheap as it gets.

    Run a search on CZforum.com and I think you'll find that I am not alone; the WW bulk pack 9mm ammo seems to give many CZ's fits.

    poof...
     
  19. Chris Rhines

    Chris Rhines Member

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    Strange - I've run thousands of rounds of Winchester White Box 9mm through four different CZ-75s, and had not a single FTE.

    - Chris
     
  20. Shmackey

    Shmackey Member

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    Your gun is flawed because you have to clean it?
     
  21. Tom B

    Tom B Member

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    I have owned 3ea CZ75B Mil Turks, 1ea CZ85 Combat and 2ea CZ75B SA. Thousands of rounds and never removed the extractor for cleaning.
     
  22. caz223

    caz223 Member

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    Maybe try different ammo?
     
  23. PCRCCW

    PCRCCW Member

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    Mind you this isnt a design flaw either......:what: :fire:
    Win white box doesnt agree with certain GUNS...the relief cut out for the extractor is a different shape than even other packages of the WWB. You may have gotten a run of rnds that just dont agree with your gun...maybe not. You have the same extractor I do on my PCR.....its done thousands of rnds of WWB in the 100 rnd boxes....
    shoot well
     
  24. HSMITH

    HSMITH Member

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    My buddy has a 75B that is creeping up on 6K rounds without one single hiccup. Seriously, NOT ONE. It has never been taken down more than a field strip, and the ejector certainly has never been cleaned anymore than wiping from the outside.
     
  25. New_comer

    New_comer Member

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    What ammo were you using? What sort of dirt were you getting?


    Too much oil, perhaps? :confused:
     
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