Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Orion8472, Jun 23, 2008.
It's hard to go wrong with a CZ though.
if you're looking to buy either/or, go with what your budget can work with. one is double the price of the other, but is better set up for sport shooting out of the box.
honestly, if you buy an sp-01 and have a piece of 400 grit sandpaper, a 1/32" brass punch, and a $58 competition hammer, save a few bucks for the rest of your equipment and get the sp-01. i was only into guns for a few weeks when i tore my CZ apart and did all the work to it... now i have a 1.5# SA only pull with the SA trigger and comp hammer and 11lb mainspring.
the TS however, could be better suited for limited if you plan on shooting major power factor as it holds more rounds; however, you can always shoot limited-10.
let us know which way you go!
Here's another thing, and it is really silly, but something about loading an even 20 rounds seems better than "only 19 rounds". It may be a psycological thing.
If I got that "plain" SP-01, however, I'd want to get the Coco Bolo grips.
what are you planning on doing with it, btw? that's the biggie.
I do have to say that the extra front and rear texture on the Tactical Sport looks nice. . . .
Would it be a good idea to contemplate the Para Ordinance PX189S, the one with the 18 round magazines?
Does the TS have
-tighter/hand fitting of slide, frame, and barrel?
-match grade barrel?
-Higher precision of internal parts?
-polished/refined internals as compared to standard CZs?
Regarding the RAMI. Compact pistols are notoriously finicky and have far more problems than full size pistols. In general, CZs are very reliable straight out of the box. They do make the odd lemon, and seem to have a couple more monday/friday guns than let's say SIG, HK, Glock etc. The problem about determining this is other companies have issues too, but they have pretty large followings of koolaid guzzling fan boys who always seem to forget about any repairs or tweaking they have to do to their pet toys. Lotsa CZs out there, not many problems being reported.
Nothing to worry about the SP01. It is the most reliable CZ I've ever had. Seems to mirror most other's experiences as well.
Mondays/Fridays seem to last all week for Para.
the couple of SP01 that I had..had really good frame to slide fit..the TS I have does too..the barrel lockup on both are good too..
the same ejector housing is used..the TS hammer is very similar to the CZ comp hammer, the TS sear reminds of a Pre B or 85 combat sear.
the trigger bars are different, everything else is about the same..cept for some dimensional differences due to the frame witdths being different.
for 25 yards paper punching at the range..both guns will do 25.
the SP01 will easily hold the upper A zone of a USPSA target at 20 yards. both guns will do well in USPSA..the TS in Limited, Limited 10 and the SP01 in production or minor limited or minor limited 10.
Get yourself an EAA Witness Elite Match in either 9MM or .45 ACP. Both are more accurate than the guns mentioned and cost alot less too.
The factory single action triggers on the EAA Match pistols are miles beyond the triggers that come on either of those guns stock.
As a matter of fact the stock trigger pull in either double or single action on the SP-01 is downright horrible.
The SP-01, which stands for "service pistol- 01" is too heavy to be carried for any kind of "service" even with an empty magazine. I can't imagine carrying one with a full magazine, forget it.
The EAA Witness Match has a firing pin stop, like those found on 1911 style pistols. The SP-01, and in fact most CZs, have a roll pin installed through the slide to retain the firing pin. These are prone to breakage and bending/distortion.
While I'm at it, I don't care for the plastic and frankly, flimsy guide rod. I know Glock uses one but, their's is bigger in diameter and shorter which adds to it's robustness. I have never been able to nor seen a Glock factory guide rod bend or distort. The one on the SP-01 comes already distorted from being assembled.
Sorry, I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade. I know the SP-01 is being hyped right now and it's the "tacticool" pistol to have.
I had problems with my RAMI, FTE with stove piping mainly.
The problem seemed to be a combination of
1. My RAMI hated PMC Bronze 9mm 115 JHP ammo (Shot the remainder in my SP-01)
2. Minor limp wristing on my part (Altered and strengthened my grip)
3. 14 round Mecgar magazine had slightly roughened feed lips (Light polish and stoning)
4. Lightly polished the feed ramp 'cause I wanted to.
To date problems have gone away.
So... basically they are very different guns. Whether the TS is "more accurate" I don't know, never having handled or fired one, but I'd say it's probably a better competition gun than the supposedly service-oriented SP-01.
I'd also buy a CZ any day over an EAA, simply because of what I read of them on these forums.
Whadda reading? If you do a search on "winess elite match" you'll see mostly positive opinions of them.
Don't get me wrong, CZ makes a fine gun, but the Tanfoglio (as imported by EAA) Elite Match pistols are a step above. I'll look else where for a project gun, preferably something used, and a little less expensive.
Well, ok, but why should I spend the money? CZ Custom Shop has the triggers for $40 plus shipping. Then you'd have to spend the money on the competition hammer to get the pull nice with no positive cam, that's $85 plus shipping. Then you'd have to spend the money on the a lighter hammer spring to lower the pull weight. Not to mention the time spent stoning and reassembling.
Then and only then, if you're lucky, the pull is close to what the Witness Elite Match trigger pull is out of the box.
Oh yeah, and then there's the issue of adjustable sights with a nice sight picture. How much extra is that on the CZ????????
the EAA are slightly bigger gun than the CZ..but still fit the hand nicely.
They are quality, steel, fully adjustable sights. They are a more snag proof design.
i've heard bot hgood and bad things about EAAs, and I wasn't happy with the tanfoglio's i've shot. i'd rather stick to something everyone likes than something that has a mixed bag. but then again, i DID buy a p22 (mixed bag) and ended up loving it.
Yeah, I understand. However, if you do not stone the engagement surfaces and add the competition hammer with the correct angles then the pull is not much better. If you don't have a fixture to make/keep the correct angles then luck is involved.
There is no mixed bag with the Tanfoglio Elite Match in any caliber. They have a pretty consistant track record.
the instructions are over at the various CZ forums on how to do trigger jobs. yes, they include the engagement surfaces, hence why i added 'sandpaper' to the original post. i knew nothing about guns when i took mine apart, and was done in about 4 hours total. just some time, care, and working slowly, and now i have people asking me how to do my trigger on their guns. no stones or fixtures. just remove a little, assemble, test, repeat until almost neutral. i ended up extremely close to other folks' CZs and other custom guns. under speed at IPSC shoots, you won't be able to tell the difference. like i said, just another option
Trawled through a variety of forums, write ups etc and the general consensus with the platform seems to be.
EAA's customer and after sales support is average to sucky at best
There was a rash of slide/frame fractures with some of the 10mm in the "standard" Witness in steel.
The polymer platform is a bit fugly but seems generally very reliable
The "Elite" range which includes the Gold Team, Limited, Stock and Match are of a better fit, finish and overall reliability, even in 10mm and is almost bargain basement for what you get.
My problem is I want the Limited but in DA/SA which isn't on the table.....
The problem is that you need to recut the engagement surfaces to a different geometry. You ain't doin that with sandpaper (or free hand for that matter).
Or you could forgo all the monkeying around and buy a gun with a better out of the box trigger to begin with. I see no reason to have to screw around with ordering parts, disassembling, fitting, and reassembling a new firearm to get what I want. All of which void the warranty!
As to the OP, there is, IMO, a better way to go than either gun mentioned, the aforementioned Witness Elite Match.
I have dealt with EAA on a few occasions. My impressions are a little different in that I've not had a bad experience.
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