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CZ trigger problem

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Lobotomy Boy, Feb 24, 2005.

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  1. Lobotomy Boy

    Lobotomy Boy Member

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    I've always had a bit of trouble with my CZ75B trigger. When shooting single action, there is a strange sponginess at the beginning of the trigger pull. Tonight a friend was watching me shoot and he said that when I first pulled the trigger, the hammer moved to the fully cocked position (apparently it normally rests tiny bit before dead center of cocking). Pulling the trigger moves the hammer all the way out, which is where the sponginess comes from, then it breaks cleanly. It's as if the sear isn't timed right.

    I bought the gun new last June and it's always been like that. I've been looking for a competent gunsmith in the Minneapolis area to work on the trigger, but now I'm wondering if this is a problem CZ should fix?
     
  2. George Hill

    George Hill Member

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    "Pulling the trigger moves the hammer all the way out, which is where the sponginess comes from, then it breaks cleanly."

    I'm pretty sure that is what a double action trigger is supposed to do... but a spongy feeling isn't right. Call Mike at CZ-USA and have a chat with him.
     
  3. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    This is dead common in CZs, sounds like yours is a little worse than average, is all. The full cock notch in the hammer has a little undercut and the sear actually has to cam it back against the mainspring until it drops off the edge.
    Call Mike at CZ-USA or ask around for a reliable gunsmith on the CZforum.
    http://p201.ezboard.com/bczechpistols82792
     
  4. browneu

    browneu Member

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    Deleted reply as Jim Watson beat me to it.
     
  5. Lobotomy Boy

    Lobotomy Boy Member

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    Thanks. That would explain what is happening exactly. I'll call Mike tomorrow.

    Can this be fine-tuned out? I shot a customized 85 a few months back and that had the crispest, cleanest trigger I've ever felt.
     
  6. Jeff OTMG

    Jeff OTMG Member

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    Mike Eagleshield is THE man.
     
  7. Walt Sherrill

    Walt Sherrill Member

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    Another option, if you're going to get a trigger job, is Jim Miossi, of Miossi Gun Works. He's a regular participant on the CZ Forum, and you can find his links there. (http://www.czforum.com) Look in the Home Gunsmithing area.

    He's very knowledgeable about CZs (non-decocker models), will give you a nice, smooth, trigger job without camming (i.e., when the hammer is cocked in SA mode, the hammer won't LIFT or move as the trigger is pulled.)

    He's less expensive than Mike Eagleshield. (Mike is very good, too.)
     
  8. bountyhunter

    bountyhunter member

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    You can certainly reduce this undesirable effect. You can cut down the height of the full cock notch on the hammer so it doesn't have to push the hammer back as far to drop. You can also change the angle on the sear so it deflects the hammer less to the rear, but you have to know exactly how to do this.... if the angle goes too far, the hammer will follow the slide forward and not hold on the FC notch.
     
  9. PCRCCW

    PCRCCW Member

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    Actually Ill be I can nail this one.......Ive had one or two of them :rolleyes:

    If you put the safety on and pull the trigger while in SA mode, the hammer should not move at all. Dont pull really hard...just a little. If the hammer moves at all them you have some parts that arent as tight as they should be. The part thats on top of the frame where the sear/safety in pinned to the frame is loose on some guns. This is what causes most of the spongyness in triggers.
    CZ Wont fix it under warranty as it doesnt hamper the function of the gun.

    A good trigger job is always welcome and the smith may be able to tighten the parts up also.......

    Shoot well................
     
  10. DT Guy

    DT Guy Member

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    My inability to get a great trigger on my 75B is what prompted me to get the 75SA. That camming just made it really, really difficult to shoot well, and I was unsuccessful in trying to work the trigger parts to be rid of it.

    I've done trigger work on 30+ firearms over the years, but I wouldn't do it on a DA CZ again-too tricky.


    Larry
     
  11. Lobotomy Boy

    Lobotomy Boy Member

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    I just spent 23 minutes on hold with CZUSA waiting for Mike, listening to the most gawdawful country and western music I've ever heard ("I'm a red-white-and-blueblood graduate of Honky Tonk U?"). Finally I hung up and redialed. I was told Mike was out to lunch.

    So far, not so good.
     
  12. mons meg

    mons meg Member

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    Did you ever get a hold of Mike @ CZ? I'm sure many of us fellow CZ owners are curious how they will handle your issue.
     
  13. Lobotomy Boy

    Lobotomy Boy Member

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    I called today and was put on hold for 23 minutes. I finally called back and was told that I couldn't possibly been on hold for 23 minutes, but that Mike was out to lunch. I called back an hour later, heard some woman scream (no kidding) and hang up. I called again and was told Mike was at the range for the rest of the day.

    I still have hopes of getting this problem solved and will give Mike the benefit of the doubt. It does seem like they need some serious help answering the phones, however. This experience didn't make me feel very charitable towards CZ-USA.
     
  14. Walt Sherrill

    Walt Sherrill Member

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    So... try Miossi Gun Works. They do a comparable job and cost less. (And Jim Miossi guarantees no camming.)

    He's also in the process of getting some custom parts made for CZs (like sears, for example) which might eventually be of interest to many of us.
     
  15. Lobotomy Boy

    Lobotomy Boy Member

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    I'm going to talk to Mike, but I don't plan on giving them any more money. If they can take care of this, I'll be happy. If they try to charge me for something that should have been taken care of before they shipped the gun, I'll be quite unhappy. Then I'll go to Jim.
     
  16. saddlebum

    saddlebum Member

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    ("I'm a red-white-and-blueblood graduate of Honky Tonk U?"). sorry you had problems with CZ, but, lay off toby keith he's a fellow okie and a second amendment supporter. :neener: saddlebum
     
  17. Sprout

    Sprout Member

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    I had my 75BD done by Mike--he's the only guy who will do decockers--and he did a good job.

    That being said, my brother just got a 75SA, is interested in a trigger job, and I'm shopping around for him. Any idea how much a trigger job from Miossi will set someone back? Mike charges $125 for a DA/SA job, and $75 for a SA only job.

    By the way, the contact infor for Miossi is 319 465-1911 and jcmios@n-connect.net
     
  18. Lobotomy Boy

    Lobotomy Boy Member

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    Nothing personal against Mr. Keith, nor against country and western music. I listen to X Country and Hank's Place all the time on XM Radio. I just haven't warmed up to the pop-country stuff that's on commercial radio. It seems like if you follow a formula--combine as many mixed metaphors with as many corny cliches as possible--and Clear Channel will play your song 50 times a day.

    I may not like his music, but it sounds like Mr. Keith is a decent fellow.
     
  19. Walt Sherrill

    Walt Sherrill Member

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    If I understand what you describe, its sound as though you've got a functional weapon with a trigger you really don't like. I've had a bunch of guns like that, over the years. I got some of them trigger jobs. A few I sold or traded away.

    CZs generally have fair triggers out of the box; some are better -- downright smooth and crisp, and a few are downright mediocre. Sounds like you got a mediocre one. (I've encountered SIGS with mediocre triggers, too, so its not just the purchase price that caues this. I know, too, that SIG doesn't fix the mediocre triggers that come off their assembly lines for nothing, either -- and a surprising number of my SIG-shooting buddies have had trigger jobs on their guns.)

    The CZ is not a target pistol. It is not a 1911. Its a good service pistol that "points" better than just about any other gun out there, with only the Browning Hi-Power being as good. (Some say better.)

    Tuned properly, however, the CZ will give a target pistol or a good 1911 a good run.

    I don't think CZ-USA going to do ANYTHING to resolve the "issue" you describe. Only a trigger/action job done by someone familiar with the gun and how to set the proper sear/hammer hook angles will do that.

    If you aren't willing to spring for the money to do that, you should really sell your CZ and find a gun more to your liking.
     
  20. Lobotomy Boy

    Lobotomy Boy Member

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    I'll pay for a trigger job. I just won't pay CZ to do it.

    I guess I've learned my lesson. I've shot lots of Glocks, and never encountered one with a mediocre trigger. They have Glock triggers, which take some getting used to, but they all work exactly alike. I like that sort of dependability.

    I've invested in a Kadet kit and extra mags, so I can't really sell the gun without losing my shirt. I think I'll fix the trigger and use the gun as a dedicated .22.

    I'd be p.o'd if I had to invest in a trigger job on a gun as expensive as a Sig. I guess I'll be striking those off my list of potential guns, too.

    The thing that really torques me is that my $199 Bersa Thunder has a great trigger. If my CZ was as good as the cheapo Bersa, I'd be thrilled.
     
  21. Pilot

    Pilot Member

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    I'm sure you could sell a NIB Kadet Kit for close to what you paid for it and the CZ-75B as well. Sell it to someone who appreciates it and is willing to do a one time trigger job or who may like it as is.
     
  22. Walt Sherrill

    Walt Sherrill Member

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    If you won't pay CZ to do the trigger job, your next best bet is Jim Miossi of Miossi Gun Works. He's a regular participant and CONTRIBUTOR on the CZ Forum. Go there and get his email or website address. Mike Eagleshield of CZ-USA is the only CZ-approved armorer/gunsmith in the US; he does -- by all accounts -- superior trigger jobs. Jim Miossi is a highly accomplished gunsmith and armorer, and apparently does the same kind of work. Those are two PROVEN, highly regarded gunsmiths.

    (I've had my local gunsmith do trigger jobs on my CZs. He polished the actions and hammer/sear interfaces, and cleaned things up a bit. Good trigger jobs, and they would certainly fix the problems you describe.

    His work did not get rid of the "camming," of the SA trigger, which causes it to lift just a bit before releasing -- but reduced it.

    It just depends on what you want.

    A local gunsmith should be able to do what YOU WANT DONE for a very reasonable price, a good bit below the $100+ needed for the two 'smiths mentioned above. CZs are not fundamentally different than other DA/SA guns; the only time it gets a little complicated is when you are having work done on a "decocker" version of the CZ.)
     
  23. Lobotomy Boy

    Lobotomy Boy Member

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    Like I wrote earlier, my next step will be to go to Jim. I just want to give CZ-USA a chance at rectifying the situation before I declare public-relations jihad on the the company. This seems to me to be a design flaw, one that should have been worked out in 30 years of production. When I researched the gun I read a few vague references about the trigger, but if I had read that this is an issue with the basic design of the sear-hammer arrangement, I would not have bought the gun. Other companies can put crisper triggers on less expensive guns. Even the trigger on Ruger's P95 is better; CZ should be able to at least match the trigger on a sub-$300 gun like the P95 or Bersa Thunder.

    I have been unable to find a local gunsmith who works on CZs in the Minneapolis, MN area.

    Pilot wrote:
    Is this an offer?
     
  24. Pilot

    Pilot Member

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    "Is this an offer?"

    Ha! Believe me I'm temepted but I already have a CZ-75B AND the Kadet Kit for it, which also fits on my PCR. The trigger camming on all the CZ's I've fired inclyuding both of mine is almost imperceptible. I don't notice it and the triggers are fine.

    If you are really serious about selling it post it on the classified here or other sites like the CZ Forum and I'm sure it will go.
     
  25. nonquixote

    nonquixote Member

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    Try giving the Outdoorsman gun shop in Hopkins a call. I've heard from friends that they sell lots of CZs, and their in-house smith works on them. I haven't yet dealt with them myself but I plan to check them out sometime.

    Nonq
     
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