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Dating EMF 1858 Remington revolver

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by kwqd, Sep 17, 2016.

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  1. kwqd

    kwqd Member

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    Getting back into shooting black powder after about a 20 year hiatus and picked up a couple of Pietta brassers, neither of which is historically accurate (1858 Remington and 1851 Colt Sheriffs model, both .44), just because I like their looks and don't plan to shoot them a lot. I still have a cased 1858 steel Remington I bought new, I think in the 1980s. Now wondering when it was made and what the quality of these pistols was in the 1980s. Serial number is 5013 on base of the grip and under the loading lever. Also an "R" with radiating lines under the loading lever. "EMF Co. Cal." on the top of the barrel and "Made in Italy" left side of the barrel. Two proof marks and "Black Powder Only" on right side of barrel. Three proof marks on right side of frame and two on the cylinder. Is that enough information to date it, or is it even possible to date these revolvers?
     
  2. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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  3. Crawdad1

    Crawdad1 Member

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  4. kwqd

    kwqd Member

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    Thanks for your reply. No Roman numerals, just what is mentioned above. The proofs on the barrel, frame and cylinder are a star over a shield and a star over a "PN". There is also an "A" in a box with the two other stamps on the frame. Would that be the date code? 1975?

    I always wondered about the quality, as there is a "ripple" in the metal in the bore about a third of the way between the chamber and the end of the barrel. It shoots pretty tight groups at 25 yards, despite this, though, as I recall.
     
  5. kwqd

    kwqd Member

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  6. kwqd

    kwqd Member

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    Looks like 1982, which sounds about right. The box is three sided and I mistook the "I" for the fourth side of the box. If it is supposed to be in a four sided box, then it must be a light strike that didn't make the whole box.

    Thanks for the fast responses!
     
  7. Malachi Leviticus Blue

    Malachi Leviticus Blue Member

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    EMF would be the importer. The "R" with radiating lines under the loading lever you mentioned sounds like it might be the manufactures logo, but doesn't ring a bell of the top of my head. If you post an image someone here might recognize it.
     
  8. kwqd

    kwqd Member

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    Best I could do on the images:

    P1000577_zps7q8yytcw.jpg

    P1000582_zpsk6hxdb09.jpg
     
  9. Fingers McGee

    Fingers McGee Member

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    Would definitely need a picture of he makers mark in order to identify it.
     
  10. kwqd

    kwqd Member

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    See above for images...
     
  11. Erwan

    Erwan Member

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    Very far in east... ;)
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2016
  12. kwqd

    kwqd Member

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    Looks like "AI" or 1981, shown above. image of frame not too good....
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2016
  13. Malachi Leviticus Blue

    Malachi Leviticus Blue Member

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    You've got the standard Italian proof marks present on your frame, and as you surmised, The Italian proof house date code "A" and something else inside the box was not struck well (which is not unheard of) The something else could easily be an "I" but I wouldn't completely rule out the edge of a D,E,F,H,L,M,N or P.

    If your curiosity is sufficient, I have found that taking several high resolution close up photos with good lighting often produces an example that reveals the rest of the strike that I can not see with the naked eye, even under magnification.

    That "R" logo, definitely looks like something styled right out of the 1980's, but not something I can recall seeing before.
     
  14. BHP FAN

    BHP FAN Member

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  15. Ephraim Kibbey

    Ephraim Kibbey Member

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    I had assumed that all the EMF Remy's were ASM products like their Colt clones (before they switched to Pietta on ASM's closure in 2000) since my [BH] 1996 EMF Hartford Remy is marked ASM.

    The "R" hall mark on your specimen brings that into question.

    Here are four scans from EMF catalogs around the time of your revolver's manufacture.

    The first is the advertisement page for it from the 1983 catalog.

    The second is the same (but clearer) page from the 1978 catalog which I worked on to bring out the barrel markings. It appears to be the 2 Italian proofs followed by:
    .44 Cal.
    NEW ARMY MODEL
    MADE IN ITALY

    The third is part of the price list from 1981.

    The fourth is part of the price list from 1983.

    I do not have a 1982 [AI] price list.
     

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  16. Ephraim Kibbey

    Ephraim Kibbey Member

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  17. kwqd

    kwqd Member

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    @Fingers McGee. I was born in Hannibal. My mother's family got Spanish land grants around O'Fallon, MO. They came up from Kentucky with Daniel Boone in the mid-1790s and stayed while he went back to bring his family up. Over a few years they were Spanish, French and American citizens without moving an inch. Those folks shot a lot of black powder.

    Haven't been able to find anything on this manufacturing mark. Sent an email to EMF to see if they can identify it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2016
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