That is absolutely not what's happening. We aren't talking about bad cops. We are talking about police policy which makes it perfectly ok from their point to view to do these things. The majority of these incidents are just LEO's following orders. Saying a couple bad cops got out of line does NOT give any of these actions a pass.
David Spade Donates $100K to Phoenix PD for AR-15s
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That is absolutely not what's happening. We aren't talking about bad cops. We are talking about police policy which makes it perfectly ok from their point to view to do these things. The majority of these incidents are just LEO's following orders. Saying a couple bad cops got out of line does NOT give any of these actions a pass.
You're okay with them being in the truck - but you seem to be raising an awful big stink over the fact that they're getting them to begin with.
Either you're okay with the cops getting AR's - or you're not. If you're okay with them getting/having AR's - then why the disagreement?
hankdatank1362
Member
And if you don't think the government works for the people, then you must walk through the woods to work every day.
I drive on OUR roads that OUR government built with OUR money.
I drive on OUR roads that OUR government built with OUR money.
hankdatank1362
Member
Oh, I agree. The superiors should be terminated (or at the very least, extremely demoted and disciplined) to make a point that the Constitution isn't just some paper that gets in the way of cop work.
Until examples are made of these types of officers, then the problem will continue.
But I doubt that it states anywhere in departmental policy to violate civil rights.
So let me get this straight.
ARs = form of militarization
You = against militarization.
You = okay with ARs.
See where i'm going with this? There's some conflicting statements there.
If ARs are a form of militarization - and you're not okay with the militarizing of police - then by simple 1+1=2 - you're not okay with police having ARs.
That - is a direct contradiction. Period.
NickEllis
Member
ravonaf:
If the "stink" you're raising has nothing to do with "David buying them AR's", then what are you doing raising a stink about anything else, in a thread about David Spade's gift to the Phoenix PD?
If you'd rather have an entire conversation about the "current trend of militarizing police", which, in your words, has nothing to do with David Spade's gift, then start your own thread and quit hijacking someone else's thread; its off topic. And rude. This thread is about David Spade's contribution, regarding which you apparently have nothing to contribute, as per your own statements.
If the "stink" you're raising has nothing to do with "David buying them AR's", then what are you doing raising a stink about anything else, in a thread about David Spade's gift to the Phoenix PD?
If you'd rather have an entire conversation about the "current trend of militarizing police", which, in your words, has nothing to do with David Spade's gift, then start your own thread and quit hijacking someone else's thread; its off topic. And rude. This thread is about David Spade's contribution, regarding which you apparently have nothing to contribute, as per your own statements.
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WVMountainBoy
Member
First off, kudos to Mr. Spade for supporting his hometown cops. I don't care if he was buying rifles or handcuffs, the help and even more so the support is great.
As for the bayonet thing, the army also sent the agency I work for several boxes of them for our AR's, they were never issued and sat at the armoury for years till they were finally thrown away (A co-worker and I salvaged several boxes) The department's philosphy was that the Troops use their rifles for long distance work and their sidearm for close quarters. As for knives, they're issued folders.
The department I work for does not issue AR's instead they allow the officer the choice to carry a semi-automatic rifle in either .223 or .308 The officers usually choose AR type weapons though some deviate. The guys are issued an 870 and a Smith .45
As for the bayonet thing, the army also sent the agency I work for several boxes of them for our AR's, they were never issued and sat at the armoury for years till they were finally thrown away (A co-worker and I salvaged several boxes) The department's philosphy was that the Troops use their rifles for long distance work and their sidearm for close quarters. As for knives, they're issued folders.
The department I work for does not issue AR's instead they allow the officer the choice to carry a semi-automatic rifle in either .223 or .308 The officers usually choose AR type weapons though some deviate. The guys are issued an 870 and a Smith .45
Good lord, this post is getting stupid.
David Spade did something good, and half of you accuse him of this stuff. I for one commend him. I don't think any of ya'll have ever done anything better for your community, so you really have no room to talk. Why does everyone always assume there is a secret agenda? Good job, man.
And by the way, at least the cops have to qualify and train with their guns. In MOST states, there is no training requirement/hunter's safety course. Beleive it or not, there are idiots out there with guns as well. Go watch youtube for examples.
Get with the times. The cops are militarized, and they DO have to be. Gangs ARE out there with lots of firepower, and not all of the threat is a hype. (Which was stated earlier)
David Spade did something good, and half of you accuse him of this stuff. I for one commend him. I don't think any of ya'll have ever done anything better for your community, so you really have no room to talk. Why does everyone always assume there is a secret agenda? Good job, man.
And by the way, at least the cops have to qualify and train with their guns. In MOST states, there is no training requirement/hunter's safety course. Beleive it or not, there are idiots out there with guns as well. Go watch youtube for examples.
Get with the times. The cops are militarized, and they DO have to be. Gangs ARE out there with lots of firepower, and not all of the threat is a hype. (Which was stated earlier)
expvideo
Member
I understand what "could" happen, and I don't think that this is any excuse to be having what look like SWAT cops patrolling the streets. 8 years ago, these "high-value targets" were there and there were no heavily armed and body armored officers patrolling the streets. Seems to me that there weren't any Mumbai style attacks either. Tell me, if these patrols had been there, how would their presence have changed 9/11?
I don't care how friendly they are. I live in the USA, and I don't want to see soldiers patrolling the streets. There is no SS here, and it needs to stay that way.
Yeah. That's my point. The AR-15 isn't the problem.
flyboy1788
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David Spade
Apparently he gave the phoenix PD 100,000 dollars to buy AR-15s because the department was to cheap or they couldnt afford them and they were undergunned. Usually celebrities are misguided liberals when it comes to guns. Hats off to spade.
Apparently he gave the phoenix PD 100,000 dollars to buy AR-15s because the department was to cheap or they couldnt afford them and they were undergunned. Usually celebrities are misguided liberals when it comes to guns. Hats off to spade.
FoMoGo
Member
This good deed has already been posted... and turned into a rant about the government... police troops... and the stupidity of giving your money away.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=414745
I hope your thread fares better.
Jim
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=414745
I hope your thread fares better.
Jim
flyboy1788
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thats unfortunate. thank you for pointing out it was a dupe though.
Wow! I just read that other thread, what a nightmare. I just love how everyone here would supposedly die to defend their 2nd amendment rights but when the police get the tools to defend those same rights it turns into a bunch of bleeding heart anti police propaganda.
flyboy1788
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Yea, kind of disturbing if you ask me. there are a lot of good cops on this forum and good cops that I know that I wouldnt hesitate to hope for them to be adequately armed because they are definately stand up people who I respect. I definately cant stand all this police trash talking. People on the other thread were bitching about them "looking" too militant with their tactical gear. Well my friends they "look" militant because they have to be. Some people in out society are ****ed in the head and wouldnt hesitate to do terrible things (they're called terrorists if Im not mistaken). Anybody happen to hear about that mumbai thing over in India?!?!?! I bet some of you people talkin trash about those "miltant cops" would have been praying to God that they were around if god forbid you were one of those poor souls in that hotel in India. A friend of mine stayed in that hotel 2 weeks prior to this incident and sure as **** would have hoped for there being cops armed to the teeth with body armour and ARs taking care of the situation. you can argue that some places dont need these tactical looking cops because nothing happens. Then you can also argue that these cops are the reason why the **** doesnt hit the fan. It is a deterrent. But I guarantee you that if god forbid a mumbai type incident happened here and cops were undergunned and more people died than necessary, all of you cop-bashers would be wondering why the hell we didnt have better prepared and armed cops. That is the end of my rant
Mossberg88
Member
aside from all the politics, good on Spade.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. When the crap really hits the fan in my nieghborhood I don't want to see some beat cop with a 30 year old 870 out there, I want to see the "military looking" SWAT boys with the good armor and the big guns getting it done.
paintballdude902
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borch- i totally agree with one thing to add
i want to see regular people ready with their guns to back up said officers incase it really gets bad, and i want to cops to be willing to accept their help
way to go spade
i want to see regular people ready with their guns to back up said officers incase it really gets bad, and i want to cops to be willing to accept their help
way to go spade
velojym
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As mentioned above... how does Spade do on INDIVIDUAL rights?
Like any other group, there are good cops and bad cops. Blanket worship only ends up supporting the bad ones, as the good cops will stand on their own merits otherwise. Hitler had a LOT of "good" cops, I understand. Doing their jobs, and all.
After all... when guns are banned, it'll be these same well-armed troopers who were once cops who'll be kicking down the doors and disarming the populace. Remember NOLA.
Like any other group, there are good cops and bad cops. Blanket worship only ends up supporting the bad ones, as the good cops will stand on their own merits otherwise. Hitler had a LOT of "good" cops, I understand. Doing their jobs, and all.
After all... when guns are banned, it'll be these same well-armed troopers who were once cops who'll be kicking down the doors and disarming the populace. Remember NOLA.
these threads about "The Man" sending the police out to kick down doors and take your guns away is pretty friggin absurd. As I told some right wing nut a few weeks ago, put down The Turner Diaries and get back to reality.
Secondly, the police don't want civilians "backing them up" because having civies back up the police is a recipe for a legal nightmare, in case one of the civies get trigger happy and starts popping off rounds at whoever. The days of the wild west and having regular folks "deputized to help out the sheriff" is over. Get over it!!!! Not going to happen in this day and age.
if you don't like cops being well armed, then you shouldn't support the NRA, since the NRA sponsors courses for LE to help them train on a variety of weapons, including full auto. They also sponsor a life insurance specifically for LE who get killed in the line of duty. You should also probably not buy any guns from companies like Glock, Sig, etc, who give a LE discount, since after all, they are supporting to arm "The Man" with guns at a reduced rate...so for all those that joined the NRA but are anti-police, your logic doesn't make sense at all.
Secondly, the police don't want civilians "backing them up" because having civies back up the police is a recipe for a legal nightmare, in case one of the civies get trigger happy and starts popping off rounds at whoever. The days of the wild west and having regular folks "deputized to help out the sheriff" is over. Get over it!!!! Not going to happen in this day and age.
if you don't like cops being well armed, then you shouldn't support the NRA, since the NRA sponsors courses for LE to help them train on a variety of weapons, including full auto. They also sponsor a life insurance specifically for LE who get killed in the line of duty. You should also probably not buy any guns from companies like Glock, Sig, etc, who give a LE discount, since after all, they are supporting to arm "The Man" with guns at a reduced rate...so for all those that joined the NRA but are anti-police, your logic doesn't make sense at all.
JImbothefiveth
Member
Well, the NRA is pretty anti-gun.
The gun industry has been trying to take away our gun rights for years now.
rbernie
Contributing Member
Some people are just LOOKIN' for an excuse to get their panties in a wad. The 'militarization of the poo-leece' is a popular way to do so. I figure that it's a low-impact way for folk to vent their frustrations regarding authority figures.
IMO, militarization of the police is all about the culture of the local police force and the tactics that they use to complete a given task. The kit used is largely irrelevant.
I think that the fact that David Spade was willing to throw down and help buy some kit for the police is a fine thing.
Tools for the job
Again, good on ya Mr. Spade.
Most training programs, and gun issuing Police administrators have taken a large step to one side in the common sense department.
The first part to examine in a training program, any, from learning to change a wheel, to shooting an attacking criminal, in your home, or on the street, is to examine the history of these actual happenings in your area of recent operations. Duplicate these on the range.
Now you know what you need to be trained do!
Then you get the training required, and the tools required as well.
Case in point, 20 Police Officers, standing on a concrete path, 7 yds from 20 cardboard silhouettes, then on the blast of a whistle, draw and fire two shots. Hullo!
What the heck is that about!
Let us go the other way, look at the action that creates a need.
Robbery's in fast food places were being perpetrated by shot gun armed criminals (say for instance) several times the Police Officer arrived on scene, when the robbers were still there, average distance away, 50 yards.
Lots of innocent citizens about, the responding Officer has a head and half a shoulder to fire his Semi Auto .40 cal pistol at, over the hood of an SUV? Sure!
M16 given to the PD, with cut out full auto capability, and they buy scopes, 4 power scopes. Cost $300 total! He now has the precision tool for the job! It is not a "Military weapon" it is a cheap tool for that job.
Rifles are way better in hitting small targets than fixed sight pistols.
Again, good on ya Mr. Spade.
Most training programs, and gun issuing Police administrators have taken a large step to one side in the common sense department.
The first part to examine in a training program, any, from learning to change a wheel, to shooting an attacking criminal, in your home, or on the street, is to examine the history of these actual happenings in your area of recent operations. Duplicate these on the range.
Now you know what you need to be trained do!
Then you get the training required, and the tools required as well.
Case in point, 20 Police Officers, standing on a concrete path, 7 yds from 20 cardboard silhouettes, then on the blast of a whistle, draw and fire two shots. Hullo!
What the heck is that about!
Let us go the other way, look at the action that creates a need.
Robbery's in fast food places were being perpetrated by shot gun armed criminals (say for instance) several times the Police Officer arrived on scene, when the robbers were still there, average distance away, 50 yards.
Lots of innocent citizens about, the responding Officer has a head and half a shoulder to fire his Semi Auto .40 cal pistol at, over the hood of an SUV? Sure!
M16 given to the PD, with cut out full auto capability, and they buy scopes, 4 power scopes. Cost $300 total! He now has the precision tool for the job! It is not a "Military weapon" it is a cheap tool for that job.
Rifles are way better in hitting small targets than fixed sight pistols.
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