Day Hikes in Great Smokey Mtn. Nat'l Park

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There are over 11,000 threads on this forum alone that deal with "protection" from bears.

That alone should be enough to convince you that you are dead meat unless you pack some serious "bear medicine" - a Ruger Alaskan, snub nosed 480 is considered the minimum, but serious hikers know the 3" 500 magnum is the way to go.

With so many "experienced" internet know-it-alls worried about bears, you just KNOW that it HAS to be a real problem - an average of 2 & 8/10 people are killed each year by black and brown bears combined. The fact that most of those are elderly individuals is immaterial. After all, do YOU want to be that 8/10'ths of a person they find?

Bears are the scourge of the woods - like JAWS, but on land... And we all know how dangerous sharks are. How much is YOUR LIFE worth?

(This post is in jest. Just carry your normal gun for people protection / signaling device)
 
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I would like to see the reference for that, since it is incorrect.
Not incorrect. Look it up in the park rules. There was a thread a while back and I coulldn't believe it either. It's simple, they don't want anyone shooting a gun for any reason inside the park which renders them useless.

http://www.nps.gov/seki/planyourvisit/yoursafety.htm

Weapons and Firearms in the Parks

Firearms are allowed in many national parks. People who can legally possess firearms under federal and state law may be able to possess them in a national park depending upon state laws. State and local firearms laws vary. Visitors who would like to bring a firearm with them to a national park need to understand and comply with the applicable laws. (Note: More than 30 national parks are located in more than one state, so visitors need to know where they are in those parks and which state's law applies.)

Federal law continues to prohibit the possession of firearms in designated "federal facilities" in national parks, for example, visitor centers, offices, or maintenance buildings. These places are posted with "firearms prohibited" signs at public entrances.

While the law allows visitors to possess firearms, it does not allow for the use of firearms in national parks and does not change existing hunting regulations. Hunting is not allowed in Sequoia and Kings Canyon National Parks.

Prior to February 22, 2010, firearms were generally prohibited in national parks - except in some Alaska parks and parks that allowed hunting. Laws & Policies
 
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Not incorrect. Look it up in the park rules. There was a thread a while back and I coulldn't believe it either. It's simple, they don't want anyone shooting a gun for any reason inside the park which renders them useless.
Federal law prohibits the Secretary of the Interior from making rules/regulations pertaining to the possession of firearms in National Parks. Therefore, the rules/regulations inside the National Park cannot legally be more restrictive than state law. Since California State Law allows for the discharge of a firearm in self defense, discharge of a firearm for self defense is also perfectly legal in Sequoia National Park.

Yes, the website for both Sequoia and Kings Canyon National Parks states:
"Discharge of a firearm or weapon is prohibited within Sequoia and Kings Canyon National Parks."

http://www.nps.gov/seki/parkmgmt/lawsandpolicies.htm

HOWEVER, what is missing from the website are the exceptions to the prohibition. If you are going to attempt to claim that the above statement applies with no exceptions then park rangers and law enforcement officers are also prohibited from discharging their weapons for any reason.

In addition, even if California law did not permit the discharge of a firearm to prevent grave bodily injury or death, the common law of necessity would justify the action.
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Necessity+defense

36 CFR (Code of Federal Regulations) 2.4 also contains this prohibition in ALL National Parks:
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-id...iv8&view=text&node=36:1.0.1.1.2.0.1.4&idno=36

(c) The use of a weapon, trap or net in a manner that endangers persons or property is prohibited.

Again, though, if the government decided to prosecute the discharge of a weapon made in self defense, the common law of necessity would apply. If my life or the life of another were threatened to the extent that I had to use my lawfully possessed and carried gun to defend it, I would have ZERO hesitation to do so because an unenforceable regulation prohibited the saving of a life.
 
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NavyLCDR, I know you keep up with all the carry laws. It's one of your interests and you usually post when this topic comes up. For my part, I often carry a gun concealed when I am hiking trails inside GSMNP. The actual use of firearms is somewhat of a grey area inside national parks and in particular Sequoia NP (in CA). I have read tales of people being prosecuted for defending themselves against a bear inside Glacier NP. I am no expert on this, but I suspect many park people would like to render firearms useless inside park boundries, but there is little they can do.

Self defense against people?
Self defense against bears, mountain lions, wolves? How about a buffalo or elk?

I would like to read the exceptions to the stated policy also by the way. As in most law enforcement situations, law enforcement are pretty much excluded from the laws, regulations and so forth for the sheeple.

Addded: Kind of reminds me of traffic accidents.... I was in the right. But I'm the one in the hospital or dead. So, I personally subscribe to the common law you mentioned. But in the event something happened when a firearm had to be used, I suspect I would be prosecuted if I was inside a national park.

This is a diversion from the thread topic. I already answered the question in terms of GSMNP.
 
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The Smoky Mts are a beautiful area. Great hikes.

Only place I've ever seen wild bears.

I've lived in or visited and hiked and even camped in some areas in Colorado, Washington, Utah, Arizona, Montana, Wyoming, Kentucky, Tennessee, and Virginia... only place I've ever seen wild bears is in the Smoky's of Tennessee.

I'd carry bear spray for the bears, and a pistol for the two legged predators.

Carrying a 'bear bell' also helps keep these critters at bay...
 

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If you like Zip lining, there's a fun zip lining course right there too. Just google it.
 

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The Smokey Mt National Park is a real treasure. The easily accessed streams are way over fished for trout. You often just have to find a place where somebody else isn't already and sort of define your territory. Works for fly fisherman on larger water.

I have seen more black bears there than anywhere else I have traveled. You need to pay attention to bears. Even Fox News a while back mentioned that bear attacks have been increasing.... not necessarily in the Smokey's, but in general.
 
Pack a gun for good measure. Again, carry the biggest caliber you can bring . Do not underestimate the dangers (even if nil) that can happen in remote places. And of course the camera, food and water. Have a great time !!
 
If an animal or dope grower is attacking me, I don't give a darn what is legal and what isn't. I'm gonna shoot if I'm legally allowed to carry.

I'll deal with the legal ramifications if I survive.
 
I doubt you'd run into a pot grower inside the park. Like was said earlier, that happens in the less traveled areas of the Cherokee National Forest from the NE edge of TN all the way down to GA. Names change.
 
Yep, GSMNP is far too busy and gets far too much attention for drug operations. Cherokee and other national forests (and big pieces of private property abbuting them) do have problems, but they get far less traffic and far less oversight.
 
I've got to ask... why would his need for self defense decrease because he passes through the gates of a national park? Is there a magical force field that keeps the criminals and crazies out?

Yep - called the price if admission and the work necessary to be there

Maybe where YOU live, you have such issues, but Southern folks tend to be a tad nicer than most........;)
 
Well, we got some pretty rough old boys around and them "durn furiners".;)

The real reason boils down to risk assessment. The risk is low for a number of reasons already discussed so the response to the risk can be proportional. OTOH, if the consequences of being involved in even a rare violent encounter are high, that counterbalances the low probability. About 9 million people visit the park every year and most years there are no violent crimes committed of any type (although there was a sexual assault this year on the trail that goes from Gatlinburg to the Sugarlands Visitor Center) so the rate of violent crime is very very low making for a low threat of violent crime. The threat of a bear attack is even lower in the park. There has only been one death associated with a black bear in the park in many many years. So, low threat of an attack from people or bears would reduce a need for a firearm in the park, but the potential catastrophic result of such a rare event would balance against that in some people's minds. Ergo, don't think of the risk in the park as if it were Chicago or Detroit (or Memphis), but do realize there is a remote possibility that you could be the one in 10 or 20 or 30 million that might make up that rare violence statistic. I carry because I don't want to leave my EDC locked up in the vehicle for someone to steal and because I don't want to have to mess with taking a concealed handgun off and putting it back on for the drive to/from home (and I'm grateful that my carry permit and the law allows me to carry and avoid leaving it in the car).
 
One thing I haven't seen mentioned is cellular communications is not available in much of the park.
That alone would encourage me to more likely carry. Help might not be a phone call away.

I too am a big Smokies fan- will be there camping a few nights at Cataloochee this fall. Had a spring camping trip planned there earlier this year but the road washed out and reservations were cancelled. Just spectacular watching the Elk come down in the evenings.

Be wary if around Gatlinburg- the Russian mob is making inroads there. I've noticed at some restaurants all the female wait staff is Russian. Supposedly some of them make quite good extra money at the many hotels "servicing" tourists.
There was also a recent murder conviction of a Russian who buried two bodies in the GSMNP.
Just be careful.
 
Wow, this one went far longer than expected, thanks everybody! I'm definitely in the same camp of "better safe than sorry", in fact, most of what's going in the packs would probably fit that category. JMR, those pics make me wish October would hurry up and get here!!!
 
There was a bear attack in GSMNP back in 2000 that resulted in the death of a 50 year old woman. She was partially consumed by that bear also. Never say never.

Bears are increasing in population tremendously all over the eastern US. A state park a mile away from my farm released 500 black bears one summer. Since that time I've seen a lot of bears in my area including in my yard eating my dog's food. I've also been stalked by a black bear in Virginia which was no doubt brought on by tourists feeding the bears. They start to see people as a source of easy food and they expect it whether you have any or not. I didn't have my gun with me that day because I wasn't aware things had changed in that park so much. I will never go back without a gun. I actually had one that day but it was in the truck instead of with me because I didn't want to be hassled by rangers. I'd rather have that than being hassled by bears though.

I don't know the situation in a place with so many hikers and tourists like GSMNP. I much prefer a lot more remote areas when I go to the mountains. Yes I know the area is very rugged and a long way from civilization but IMO civilization moves out there with those hikers and tourists. There certainly is not one thing wrong with going there. I've been there many times. I just prefer more secluded areas. Some of those areas are on national land and others are on state land. It's good to know all the laws and rules of the place you'll be going. I always check before I leave home.

The last trip I took I hiked a long way to get to an area that still has virgin timber. I didn't see another person on that trail all day. That is the kind of place where a person needs protection. The bad guys and aggressive animals know where the popular trails are and they generally avoid those areas. But being way out in the middle of nowhere with no one there but my wife or being totally alone - that's where you might seriously need to protect yourself. Between those areas and the places where people are dumb enough to feed bears you have the the main spots you need to be concerned.

Wild hogs certainly shouldn't be ignored in many places. The wonderful thing about hogs is they run in packs. And they do sometimes attack people. I don't know how often that happens but I do know that the people I know who went to Georgia to hunt hogs years ago wouldn't take anything except a magnum revolver or above.

Bear attacks are very much increasing in this country and I think it's also true that most bear attacks don't get reported unless someone dies. I haven't been attacked but I've been threatened by bears on at least 3 occasions. Obviously bears don't attack every time they threaten but it sure is good to know you have some way to fight back when they are clacking their teeth at you or staring at you and growling or shadowing your every move on the side of a mountain with only a fairly narrow ledge to walk on with cliffs on both sides (one going up and one going down).

I guess I've spent my share of time in remote areas and I've decided it isn't worth taking the risk of not being armed. I don't think a person absolutely must have a magnum for black bears. A .45 should be good and on long hikes that's what I will have. But in areas with high concentrations of bears and / or two legged skunks (and I've been to both) I often take a .44 magnum especially if I'm on an ATV instead of walking.

BTW I've been attacked by feral dogs too. That's worse than hogs or bears IMO. A lot more people are killed by feral dogs than by bears. Dogs generally need to be dealt with using a high capacity semi-auto because there are usually several together or they wouldn't have the nerve to attack. I was on an ATV when I was attacked so I was able to just ride away but if I had been walking that trail I would have been in serious trouble with a half starved mother doberman and her 5 equally starved pups all coming after me. I think those dogs were put there to keep people away from a cash crop just to be honest. Dogs on their own generally don't make it. Someone was giving them just enough food to keep them alive and hungry. I rode right through the middle of a giant pot patch once too. They were so big I didn't even recognize them as being pot plants. I'm talking 15 feet tall or more. I was lucky not to get shot that day.
 
Wow, this one went far longer than expected, thanks everybody! I'm definitely in the same camp of "better safe than sorry", in fact, most of what's going in the packs would probably fit that category. JMR, those pics make me wish October would hurry up and get here!!!

The Great Smokey Mountain NP becomes very popular again once the leaves begin to change. There are a couple weeks in September where it will be "normal" until the leaves begin to change. Much of what I carry with me would fit in the same "better safe than sorry" catagory unless I am out specifically taking pictures and lugging more equipment than usual along with me. I can't say that I always carry a handgun hiking there however.

I like the park in the winter also. There is a sense of peace that is not present during the summer.
 
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There was a bear attack in GSMNP back in 2000 that resulted in the death of a 50 year old woman. She was partially consumed by that bear also. Never say never.

WOW, thirteen years ago and how many MILLIONS of visitors since? REALLY?

You have better odds of being hit by a meteor as you cash your winning Powerball ticket.....If you think you can plan for every possible contingency - you can't unless you go to Kansas and buy a decommissioned nuke silo and hole up inside.....really, loosen the tinfoil just a little and enjoy life
 
I actually consider carrying some water and a knife a higher priority than a firearm inside the park.

WOW, thirteen years ago and how many MILLIONS of visitors since? REALLY?

Pretty much it..... the most visited National Park in the country and we had one death in 2000 (12-13 years ago). Better pack that 500 S&W Mag. :)

As I recall it was not determined if the bear killed the woman or the woman died and the bear had a meal from the carrion.
 
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I actually consider carrying some water and a knife a higher priority than a firearm inside the park.

After having been to Gatlinburg and the surrounding parts of the park this spring, I agree with this comment as it relates to wildlife. There is so many damn people that you would never see a bear or any other wild animal. And for the most part, the trails around Gatlinburg have so many damn people that you aren't likely to meet up with some characters without a bunch of people around.

The park is huge though and I only visited a small part of it with my young kids. For the most part, I either carried a 380 or left it in the truck. there was just so many damn people. It was like walking through a mall, not a national forest.

As a side note, I won't ever go back to Gatlinburg. It was not what I remembered as a kid from 25 years ago. I'll gladly visit the park again but not from there.
 
I live "down hill" from Gatlinburg and avoid it. Hikers generally avoid anything near the place, but the tourist can get to those few easily and if you're trying to access those near it you'll be tripping over families. Safe, but not what a trip to the park is about.
 
After having been to Gatlinburg and the surrounding parts of the park this spring, I agree with this comment as it relates to wildlife. There is so many damn people that you would never see a bear or any other wild animal.

Really? I've stayed there twice recently, the latest this past January and have seen bears wandering around the Park Vista hotel where I stayed. I was there on business trips each time otherwise I'd have been camping somewhere;)

You know what they say about "never".
 
From experience as I live somewhat nearby, I tell you the same as everyone, just carry your norm, most animals don't care, and you rarely see other people except at the trailhead
 
Originally Posted by Jeff H View Post
After having been to Gatlinburg and the surrounding parts of the park this spring, I agree with this comment as it relates to wildlife. There is so many damn people that you would never see a bear or any other wild animal.

Last fall I the wife and I saw a bear in the Roaring Fork area. That bear was no more than a mile from the taffy and t-shirt shops. I'll agree that Gatlinburg is a place best avoided or at least driven through as quickly as possible, but it is the backyard of many wild animals.

I can happily report that my hike this weekend resulted in no deaths-though there were potentially mortal battles. The only wildlife I saw was one squirrel and about 15 native brook trout that were released. The old growth grove through which we hiked will hopefully outlive us all.
 
Roaring Fork can be a tough fishing experience. You need to be part mountain goat. But, oh is it pretty!!

If have not seen any wildlife, I would suggest you hit Cades Cove in early January and you will observe the rut. Bucks everywhere. This past Janauary, I even got to see a couple big bucks sparring. The good part is that you can move around pretty quickly as there aren't many visitors that time of the year.

Guns... well, do what is comfortable and makes you feel good.
 
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