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DC Sniper Rifle

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by LaEscopeta, May 22, 2006.

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  1. LaEscopeta

    LaEscopeta Member

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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    "The Bushmaster rifle used by convicted sniper John Allen Muhammad and Lee Boyd Malvo is seen at the Montgomery County Judicial Center after it was entered into evidence in the murder trial of Muhammad, Wednesday, May 17, 2006 in Rockville, Md. Muhammad, who is representing himself, is on trial forfor the six killings in Maryland during the Oct. 2002 Washington area sniper spree.(AP Photo/Chris Gardner, Pool)"
     
  2. beerslurpy

    beerslurpy member

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    Wow he used an eotech. So much for magnification.
     
  3. Owen

    Owen Moderator Emeritus

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    What's the white junk all over it? Dust from the evidence locker? Fingerprint dust?
     
  4. Onmilo

    Onmilo Member

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    Slick rifle.
    Too bad it ended up in the hands of cold blooded murderers.
     
  5. madmike

    madmike Member

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    Watch for calls to ban EoTechs.

    "The deadly, hi-tech, computerized electronic sighting device used by the DC snipers. These scopes use laser holography to create an image of the target and mark it with a red targeting circle the victim can't see. While they serve a purpose for soldiers or government agents fighting terrorists or drug dealers, we can see no legitimate reason why this technology should be available to civilians. It is incredible to imagine there would be any sport if one hunted deer with an EoTech, since the deer would have no idea it was being targeted and would be doomed without effort on the part of the hunter."

    :barf: :barf: :barf: :fire: :banghead:
     
  6. Don't Tread On Me

    Don't Tread On Me Member

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    Oh jeeze...this will surely feed the EOtech vs. Aimpoint bashing/debate over on a popular AR15 forum.. :rolleyes:


    IIRC from the transcripts of past trials, most of the shots were between 35-65 yards at most. There might have been 1 maybe 2 a little further, but not much. They hit their victims in a number of different places. Some got hit by headshots, others got "winged" in the love handle area. No consistency. On a few occasions, they fired more than 1 shot because they missed entirely.


    If you can't hit COM with ANYTHING at 50 yards from a rested slow fire position, you suck. The "snipers** " were terrible marksmen. That's a good thing as it resulted in a few victims surviving. Had they been better shots, none would have survived.

    Unfortunately for the others, even 55gr Wal*Mart .223rem is pretty devistating and most of the victims died.



    ** we should refrain from calling them snipers, despite the stupid moron media doing so. Snipers are heroes that save American lives by putting themselves in extreme risk doing hard work every day. We soil the label of "sniper" everytime these thugs are described as such.
     
  7. madmike

    madmike Member

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    As I told one respondent, "My eight year old daughter can shoot better than that."

    Yeah, the Sniper School was not happy with the implied corelation, seeing as the scumbag was a vet.

    But wow, I have to wonder if he EVER qualified in small arms, if that's as poor as he shoots?:confused:
     
  8. Don't Tread On Me

    Don't Tread On Me Member

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    Mohammed didn't do most of the shooting, Malvo did the majority of the shooting.
     
  9. madmike

    madmike Member

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    Let's be thankful he sucked and wasn't taught.
     
  10. clipse

    clipse Member

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    I wonder if the stock is fixed in that position. If so that would mean there there are no preban features which means that this wasn't even an assault rifle. :D
     
  11. madmike

    madmike Member

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    Yes, it was a post ban weapon.

    Some groups then pushed to ban stocks that aren't collapsible, but LOOK LIKE THEY ARE, so as to reduce sales of such weapons.:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
     
  12. The Grand Inquisitor

    The Grand Inquisitor Member

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    This doesn't quite make sense. Americans don't have any lock on snipers - are Jihadi snipers in Chechnya shooting at Russian soldiers and the occasional civilian heroes?

    Any sniper, American or otherwise is not a hero, but rather just another soldier doing his duty. There's nothing glorious and heroic about killing people at any range; sometimes it's necessary, but it is never good.
     
  13. LaEscopeta

    LaEscopeta Member

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    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A8763-2004Sep9.html
    Note: I added the stuff in brackets from different parts of the referenced article, to keep this post short.
     
  14. madmike

    madmike Member

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    It's still bad that someone was able to walk out with $1500 worth of rifle and sight.

    Still, what were these 50 related crimes? "possession of a stolen weapon"? "Possession of a weapon while a felon"? How many were actually used to commit violence?
     
  15. AJ Dual

    AJ Dual member

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    IIRC, weren't they shooting out the trunk of a sedan? I thought it was through the hole left from the removed trunk lock, with Malvo's legs protruding into the passenger compartment from a folded-down back seat...

    The EOTech and an AR with no front sight base made sense in that case, since they were only shooting through a hole that was about 1.5 2" in diameter. You can crowd the EOTech as much as you want, and with no parallax, you can hold any funky eye-line you want, as long as you can see the dot or cosshairs, it's on target.

    So if I've got the details of how they used the trunk of the sedan as a 'blind' right, I think Malvo only had about a half-inch crescent shaped hole above the barrel to see through, and that might account for some of the crummy marksmanship. Presuming a zeroed-in optic, and the flat-shooting .223, 50-60 yard shots to COM on unsuspecting targets should be child's-play for almost anyone if they weren't so constrained.
     
  16. beerslurpy

    beerslurpy member

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    No one ever implied they were USMC Scout Snipers. They were however snipers in that they fired on their targets from concealment and then vacated before a response could be mustered against them. That is the essense of sniping.
     
  17. Hawkmoon

    Hawkmoon Member

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    Don't Tread On Me beat me to it, but Muhammed was mostly the wheelman, and it was the Malvo kid who did most (if not all) of the shooting. Wasn't Muhammed a truck driver or supply clerk or something like that when he was in the service?
     
  18. madmike

    madmike Member

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    I believe so, but everyone in the Army and Marines, and most in the AF, are required to qualify on small arms at least once a year.

    Granted, some suck, but still, it wasn't impressive shooting. If Muhammed was any good, he should have taught the boy the basics.

    Ah, screw it. I'm not going to try to figure out the mind of a sociopathic, twisted moron.
     
  19. Lone_Gunman

    Lone_Gunman Member

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    Was Lon Horuchi a hero?

    How about the Japanese sniper that killed my uncle on Iwo Jima?

    "Sniper" is a morally-neutral term.
     
  20. madmike

    madmike Member

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    The "Sniper" bit came about when Muhammad was found, and IDed as an Army vet. AHA! Obviously the ARMY trained him as a killer and a sniper, and taught him to use a deadlysemiautomaticweaponofmassdestructionrambokillingmachine.

    Sniper is neutral. "US Army Sniper," which he was not, has been used as an insult in this case.
     
  21. nico

    nico Member

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    my memory may be deceiving me (and they may have made it up), but after their arrest, I remember a good number of sources claiming that Muhammad qualified as an expert marksman when he was in the military.
     
  22. grimjaw

    grimjaw Member

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    I remember a good number of sources claiming that Muhammad qualified as an expert marksman when he was in the military.

    My limited understanding of the grading of military rifle expertise indicates that a rating of 'expert' on an M16 would not necessarily qualify you as a 'sniper.' The rating was for hitting a X out of Y targets between 50-300 meters (could be off on that).

    jmm
     
  23. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    Yes, some American snipers are heroes to other Americans, but certainly not all. Did you read, "Jarhead"? The guy never fired a shot in anger in Desert Storm.

    In the military, American snipers certainly were not always revered as heroes. Carlos Hathcock's biographies describe some of the disdain non-sniper soldiers held for snipers. Hathcock was repulsed by being referred to as a murderer by fellow soldiers because he didn't kill in a fight, but just blew people away before they knew what was going on. He reasoned, appropriately, that he was in a fight - war. He just used the advantage of stealth to improve his odds. Hathcock was a hero that was despised by some of his peers.
     
  24. madmike

    madmike Member

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    An expert must score 38 or better out of 40. The preferred range has pop up targets at 50, 75, 100, 150, 200 and 300 meters. They appear in singles and pairs for 3-7 seconds, longer at long range. Firing positions are from fighting position, and prone unsupported. These days, one wears Interceptor body armor, as well as LBV and helmet. The long stock on the A2 can get in the way thusly, especially for smaller shooters and females. There is talk of qualifying off hand again, because of our current conflict, but I haven't seen it confirmed yet.

    An INFANTRYMAN who scores EXPERT may be sent to the Sniper School by his unit, to learn stealth, intel gathering and target prioritizing. The course is arduous but not long and was audit only until a few years ago. It is now pass/fail.

    Sniper is a skill, not a measure of accuracy alone.
     
  25. Crosshair

    Crosshair Member

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    Would have been interesting to see how the media would have reacted if they had been using a bolt action rifle.:rolleyes:

    I bet someone is going to want the rifle destroyed "for the victims". I had someone at work tell me this. I went on a long speech and told them, "The people they killed are dead, sawing the gun in half is going to do nothing. You might as well destroy their car and bulldoze the gas station it happend at. It is an inanimate object, it's a hunk of metal. You have to be a very emotionaly weak person to think that doing such a thing will bring any "closure" to people. The person who pulled the trigger is the person that should be sawed in half, but even that won't bring closure. You are just trying to cover the fact that this terible thing happened and there is not a thing you can do about it. Death is a part of life, you can't hide and pretend it doesn't exist. It's real, it's there, and you are going to die someday too. It's something we all have to deal with. Blaming it on a piece of metal is just trying to hide from that fact."

    /Sorry, I had to put up with alot of people who where "blaming" the gun.
     
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