Dealers selling to "unsavory" characters

[Iramo94]

I know several under cover police officers that work in the gangs unit here, and they look like they were just put in parole yesterday. Talk to them, however, and you'll see they are the nicest people you'll ever meet.
So my answer is no. I'd sell to any law abiding citizen.

 

[mdauben]

Just pass the background check and you are ok.

This.

Its not up to you to make possibly prejudiced determinations of who can or can not buy a gun. While I think its disgusting, the "gang banger" and "prison thug" look is quite popular among certain segments of the otherwise law abiding population.

 

[Agsalaska]

This thread cracks me up. Deny someone there rights because you got a feeling? Wow.

I can go look at the kids graduating from my old high school and wonder what the he'll happened. Probably the same reaction my parents generation had when they looked at us.

On a serious note, you may think you have the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason but you don't. Do it to the wrong person or group of people and you can be sued.

 

[MyGreenGuns]

My appearance would not tell you anything about me other than that I could care less about fashion over being comfortable.

^this! I wear loose torn jeans, old concert t-shirts, a baggy hoodie and a well worn ballcap (sometimes backwards).

I'd hate to be shutdown when trying to buy a gun just because I dont dress like you. I'd be more comfortable if you refused straight up and just said, "You give me a bad vibe, so no sale." I wouldnt like it, but I could respect that.

As for the "no price tags" guy: I can see why you would do that. But dont get offended when I'm telling everyone about that "idiot over there that clearly doesnt know anything about his guns. (that is IF you shunned me. I imagine if we talked about it for a minute I'd probably pass your test)

But I would be more likely to sell to someone dressed "gangsta" than "dreadlocked". One of them is probably trying to look cool, the other is probably on drugs.

 

[raubvogel]

I think if it is a private sale, you as the seller can refuse to sell to someone for whatever reason, from not liking that the dreads coming off his nostrils are both left handed to him shooting his arm up while talking to you. You do not have to justify it at all.

I knew a guy who would charge people to park at his lawn on game day. But would not let anybody with a redneck-looking (i.e. dog cage on the back and so on) truck park there.

For a commercial sale, I do not know if customer meets official requirements you have to sell to him or not. But I will say that a properly fed gut feeling is very important; just make sure it is properly tuned to what really matters. Remember the people who flew the planes into the twin towers met the requirements to get flight lessons. Gut feeling should have kicked in when they were not interested in landing.

Rising around the prejudice can be hard. One way is to talk to (potential) customer and have a feel for what he is all about. I mean, which guns does he own or used? Which ammo and/or caliber he prefers? What is his gun range of choice and why? Get past the fact he's from transexual Transilvania -- and dressed to the part -- and learn a bit more about the person. After all, isn't knowing your customer the best way to sell the right item?

 

[12131]

I'm a short, mean looking oriental skin head, in jeans and T. What say you, OP?

 

[medalguy]

Ummmm.......lemme see here.......loincloths, yeah, that's it, loincloths. I'd never sell a gun to someone in a loincloth.

Seriously? You would deny someone their right to purchase a firearm based on the way they are dressed? I have two friends who are pretty high-priced attorneys. On the weekends, they put on their leathers and ride their Harleys around the mountains with their wives hanging onto the back of the bike for dear life. Should they be denied a firearm because they wear colors on the weekend?

 

[Agsalaska]

Raubvogel, first I think you are right, at least practically speaking, on private sales. On commercial sales if you deny someone the right to purchase, no matter what it is, always remember that you could have to justify it in court. I believe lawsuits in my county cost $85 to file.

So say he refuses to sell a gun and his reasoning is he is young, dressed like a gangster, talked funny, had an inner city address, and I used to work in a prison so I have a sense about these things. He might get away with it once. But if he did it twice, to two people that knew each other?.? Would you want to defend that in today's court. You would not stand a chance.

I can hear it now-'but he held the gun sideways and tried to fit it in his pants judge!!!'

 

[AK_Maine_iac]

Over the years i have belonged to a few biker type clubs. I recall one very warm August day in Maine. Our club was holding a Poker Run. The way it worked was you had a set number of check points to sign in at. At that time you was given a single playing card. At the end of the day the rider with the best poker hand won the grand prize of what ever. One of the check points happen to be in a town that was holding a gun show. You should have seen the looks we got when over 100 bikes come rolling into town. YES we where all LEO's in everyday dirty biker garb We walked right into the gun show. Don't think Belfast Maine was ever the same again after August 1979

To this day i am 6"2 285lbs shaved head. (after cancer treatments i decided i like skin head) Arm Ink, unshaven baggy jeans ratty old t-shirt and western style boots. My every day dress.

 

[billdeserthills]

It has been my experience that most of the gangbangers I meet at the gun shows quickly show their true colors when they try to make a bulk purchase of saturday night specials. Last time it was a banger's gf who made the purchase, she asked for everything by make & model #. A week after the sale I started getting calls from atf wanting gun trace info one at a time... I sure felt stupid and used on that deal

 

[olderguns]

I would sell to anyone who could pass a background check, but you have to realize you are judged by the way you look,, me now cleancut slacks or jeans that fit, and polo shirt most days, and never a second look ...But up till I married at 38 years old I had hair at or below my elbows, and a beard that ZZ Top would envy, can't even remember all the times the police would stop just to see (where I was going or if they could help me, even was stright out asked to leave one time sittng on a bench waiting for my brother at the mall) so dress anyway you want,,, just remember you will be judged by it fair or not...

 

[FROGO207]

If you are able to legally purchase a firearm arm I will sell it to you. That is as long as you are not acting like you are obviously drunk/drugged. Then I reserve the right to say come back in your right mind and we will try it again. I agree you get a sense of somebody who will not pass a 4473 by actions at times. But what they look/dress like being a deal breaker?? :banghead:

I am not a dealer so NOT needing to use a 4473 in Maine where FTF is legal I attempt to follow the law but if one lies to me mistakes are made.

 

[Sav .250]

Different strokes for different folks..........

 

[Beak50]

At the last gun show we sold quite a few "pocket pistols" and had two guy's ask if they could just buy with no background check.Needless to say we didn't sell to them. They were both average looking white men no gang looks or anything.My buddy said he thought they might be undercover A.T.F..But I have been to the Big show around here in"Monroeville" and have seen what I would call gangster looking guys pull out Gold cards and buy cases of SKS's.But that was when they were $50.00 apiece 20+ yrs.ago.I figure if they pass the background check sell it.But I wouldn't let someone knowingly "straw"purchase from us.

 

[EddieNFL]

"Is it okay to be prejuduced?"

You mean "human?"

 

[Redlg155]

The responses have been interesting. As to whether or not I would sell to a bald headed short asian guy...of course I would since I am a short bald headed asian guy myself.

Passing a BG check should not be the sole consideration. I have tattoos. I agree with them because they are a form of identification and self expression. But what about the guy who has a tatoo of the following, but still passes the BG check...
1%
Latin King Crown
Swatiska....and please, no one mention mistaken Native American symbols.
Lightning bolt
Tear drop
Crips, bloods, folk nation or other tattoos.

What if the guy only has a green card (INS resident alien ID card)? Note...I would sell to a green card holder IF he/she did not set off my "internal alarm".

 

[Carl N. Brown]

1. Should personal opinion overide the law? If the buyer is legal, is personal opinion just prejudice? I'll admit though to being prejudiced against people who signal bad motive or intent in wanting a gun. Or who remind me of Rich Wyatt.

2. I have known bikers who used guns responsibly (and some I would not trust with bare hands or shod feet); I have known non-bikers who should not have had guns. Biker status would not be the breaking point. Rap style clothing might be a breaking point especially if they looked like Steve Martin (if you have seen the movie you know what I mean: that was atrocious).

3. Arabic garb reminds me of the Shriners, most of whom are responsible citizens. I was also brainwashed by the Sinbad movies into believing there are Arab heroes as well as Arab villians.

4. I know a gun dealer who refused to sell a gun to an old lady who came in complaining about people stealing apples from her tree in the back yard. He also had a customer who was worried for his kid's sake about a drunk in the housing project. He talked the guy into getting a baseball bat instead. And glove and ball. And making sure he was seen taking his kid to the common area to practice ball.

 

[BSA1]

I was born literally on the wrong side of the tracks and raised as poor white trash by a single mom. At the beginning of each school year my mother brought us several sets of school clothes that had to last all year. So that meant by the end of school year my jeans were faded with patches sewed on to cover the holes and tears. I was picked on and teased at school.

My mother drove a 1958 Chevy that the floor pans had rusted though and could see the pavement before she traded it off.

We had a tube type b&w TV when everyone else had new color TV's.

I drive a 16 year old pickup truck with dents, rust and a tired starter that takes two tries to start (hey it ain't worn out yet).

We live in a 91 year old farm house with a barn and outbuildings in various states of disrepair.

My jeans are faded and worn. We have cats, dogs, chickens and horses running around. I am probably going to get a spring calf soon.

You know what? We love it.

I am retired LEO after 30 years with a college degree honors program. My wife has a very good paying job with very good benefits and two college degrees.

My mother never allowed us to be dishonest or feel sorry for ourselves when growing up.

When I go to gun shows in my beat up truck and faded jeans I usually have a large wad of cash in my pocket. I have found I can often get a better deal when I pull out a wad of cash and start peeling off 20's and 100 dollar bills. The reason I have that wad of cash is because I more disposible income than Mr. I am dressed better than you is I am not paying on a big mortgage, HD motorcycle, fancy new truck, car and boat.

I have occasionally encountered the type of attitude that they are not going to give me the time of day to sell me a gun because of my attire and they think I am too poor to have the money. I usually get the last laugh when I show them the wad of cash I am carrying and thank them for not letting me waste any more of my time before moving on.

My point is the poor white trash standing in front probably has the money and then some to buy guns.

The doper or biker looking dude is really a undercover cop.

So when you judge someone solely based on their appearance you are likely to be wrong.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

You won't sell a gun to someone dressed like a biker, but you will sell one to, for example, Bernie Madoff?

 

[Gtimothy]

IMHO the gun belongs to you and you are responsible for it up to the point when the sale is complete. Being prejudice isn't the issue! If the person buying the gun makes me uncomfortable, I reserve the right to refuse the sale! It doesn't matter if he/she is White, Black, Muslim, Eskimo, Biker, etc. It is up to me to ensure that my sale is as legal as I can make it. If they pass the background check and I feel comfortable with the sale, no problem!

 

[Bubba613]

My shop is in a mixed area. About 40% of my customers are black, many working class, and many many of those are under 30. It is the uniform of that set. If they dressed "white" they'd get beaten up every day.
It isn't someone's appearance. It is other things. Their body language. The way they speak. They way they present themselves.
One customer came in with big chains etc and I figured he was a low life looking for a clip for his nahn.
Actually he worked for the DOT running one of their computer systems. He got the job after 2 tours in Iraq. He's welcome any time.
The only time I've denied a sale is if I had good indication it was a straw purchase. I would if someone appeared drunk or crazy, or said they needed the gun to kill someone.

 

[JG727]

Regardless of what ever the person looks like, you have a responsibility to your license and to yourselg to not go through with sales you believe may be suspect. If you have a gut feeling trust it. If the person feels slighted they are much more likely to.find a different dealer than file a complaint.

You aren't denying them their right, you're preserving yours. If you get sent to jail fir helping him,/her or have your license revoked, it cab get pretty hard to exercise your rights.

If they are a law abiding citizen then they can find another dealer, or they can try to convince you.

 

[wally]

even when they pull out a roll of bills to pay, yet they purchase an inexpensive weapon with chrome ..aka"bling". Just pass the background check and you are ok.

Not selling for anything other than failing the background check of having evidence of a "straw purchase" could open you to a discrimination lawsuit. I'd love to see the main stream media's response to such a thing

 

[HoosierQ]

We're doing those darned background checks for a reason...I guess. So if somebody passed the background check and wasn't clearly doing a straw purchase "Pssst...hey Cleatus, that's the one I want, fill out the paperwork on that one for me would 'ya"...or maybe "yep sweetie, that tech-9 right there is exactly what you need to keep your pretty self safe to and from work at night"...kind of stuff.

There are lots of bikers who are OK, ditto people wearing that urban stuff, ditto arabs. They pass the check and their ID is good, I'd do it.

Would I do a private sale to anybody I didn't know? I think not. That clean-cut guy could be covering up prison/gang tats with the pink polo shirt.

 

[BSA1]

With as common as tattoos have become in society how can you tell what a prison/gang tattoo is?