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Debunked: Limp wristing is a valid excuse for malfunctions

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by sturmgewehr, Dec 2, 2007.

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  1. sturmgewehr

    sturmgewehr Member

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    I hear it over and over again, people making excuses for their hanguns performance by claiming the malfunctions aren't the guns fault but the shooters fault for not holding it correctly.

    I've held firm in the belief that if a gun doesn't, work regardless of how loosely you hold it, there's something wrong with the gun. This is especially true in a fighting handgun, more so than a target handgun.

    I won't go into what should be the obvious reasons why you would expect your auto to feed properly regardless of your grip. What I will do is show you some video. :) As I've said, I've tested very one of my carry guns to make sure they function reliably even if they are "limp wristed". I go even further than having a "limp wrist", I don't even hold on to the guns, I just let them sit in my hand while I pull the trigger.

    Here are the results:

    Springfield XD 9mm

    Sig Sauer P226R
    Springfield 1911 TRP
    Beretta Model 92

    That's all I took with me today, but as you can see these weapons function as designed regardless of how they're held - just as they should.
     
  2. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    What do you believe "limpwristing" to be?:confused:

    Your wrist is straight in the videos. Jeff Cooper used to use his thumb and forefinger to shoot a 1911 (I think it is in a video somewhere), but he did not limpwrist the weapon. You did not either.
     
  3. sturmgewehr

    sturmgewehr Member

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    Dude, stop. My wrist (nor anyone else's) can be crooked unless we have a birth defect. My wrist is loose and I am not tense in the slightest.
     
  4. WinchesterAA

    WinchesterAA Member

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    That's not a thorough test bro.. You held it in such a way that the pressure through the firearm remained pretty similar to normal use, like a stiff grip on a weak hand.

    I think muscular reflex inefficiencies may throw additional variables into the mix...

    You know how you brace for impact? Well, when you're trying to prepare for a followup, while the gun is recoiling you apply counter-pressure. Maybe the wrong pressure is applied due to a lack of reflexive ability thus throwing off the balance of the action and causing the shell casing to get caught in something, the slide to lose momentum, friction in uncommon areas, etc etc.

    Try an uncalculated sloppy grip and see what happens.
     
  5. Rustynuts

    Rustynuts Member

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    Does seem to be a normal recoil there. Wrist seems pretty firm. Muzzle flip in itself does NOT mean there is limp wristing involved.
     
  6. boredelmo

    boredelmo member

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    Hm, I wouldn't consider what you are doing to be limp wristing.

    The web of your hand is as high as it needs to be.

    It looks as if you are almost holding the gun near your waist. The gun's pivot point vs your grip gives it enough resistance to return to battery.

    Keep in mind, i think the power of the charge is a factor as well.
     
  7. sturmgewehr

    sturmgewehr Member

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    How on earth can you apply "counter pressure" when I don't have any fingers on the gun?!?!?!?
     
  8. Gator

    Gator Member

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    A lose grip is not "limpwristing", your test doesn't debunk anything.

    Nice guns though :)
     
  9. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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  10. sturmgewehr

    sturmgewehr Member

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    What you're seeing is 24 or less frames per second. The gun flops almost out of my hand on recoil, especially with the .45. The only thing keeping it from flying out of my hand is my trigger being through the trigger guard and the web of my hand.
     
  11. boredelmo

    boredelmo member

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    What you are doing is simply not gripping the firearm. Your wrist stays straight and does not move with recoil.

    Imagine your wrist as a ball joint. Twirl it around, make circles with your hand. Take a normal full grip and let the recoil dictate where your wrists move. That would be what i consider wrist limping.
     
  12. sturmgewehr

    sturmgewehr Member

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    My wrist is most certainly "limp" as all the guys there can attest. As a matter of fact, I fired so much today like that my wrist is actually sore.
     
  13. WinchesterAA

    WinchesterAA Member

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    You do have fingers on the gun, bro.. You pull the trigger, the firearm kicks back. Guess what your finger does...

    It keeps your gun from falling by keeping the trigger depressed, otherwise you'd drop your gun.

    There's always counter-pressure, because your pistol when fired rotates on an axis. Your muscles override the force generated by the explosion, if they didn't you wouldn't be holding the gun.


    Point in case - I don't think it's necessarily an issue with wrists being limp, I think it has more to do with peoples reflexes being inappropriate for the situation.

    Usually due to misunderstanding the concept of how a firearm is made effective.
     
  14. Bazooka Joe71

    Bazooka Joe71 Member

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    So lets say you were limpwristing, which it can be argued that you weren't...

    You fire 1 mag through 4 of your guns and now it's debunked? I wish all tests worked like that.
     
  15. sturmgewehr

    sturmgewehr Member

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    I shot over 200 rounds today, to the point my trigger finger is sore and even my wrist is a little sore.
     
  16. taliv

    taliv Moderator

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    this thread is limp
     
  17. JWarren

    JWarren Member

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    Sorry can't do it here.

    My own experience has shown me otherwise.

    I grew up shooting revolvers. You can hold them any way you want. In 1994, I decided I wanted a Glock 19 and got one. I had read all the reports of how reliable they were.

    Well, mine hung up a LOT. In casual conversation with a MS highway patrol officer, I mentioned this. Knowing my upbringing, he commented that I was probably shooting it like I would shoot a revolver and told me about limpwristing. Later, he came by to demonstrate with his Sig.

    So I tried a different grip. Sure enough, it was reliable.


    I find that hard to believe. I've had that same Glock 19 for 13 years and it has been by carry handgun for 12 of them. It hasn't failed since I got that lesson from the LEO.

    From my understanding, it has to do with inertia and the mass of the slide-- especially with polymer frame handguns. I may test this with my 1911A1 (my NEW carry handgun.)

    At any rate, my experiences call BS on it. Yours suggest otherwise. I'll take mine.


    -- John
     
  18. boredelmo

    boredelmo member

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    Limp wristing is a widely accepted cause of malfunctions. I have never heard of there being any controversy of whether its true or not.

    The fact you want to debunk it is odd. But the fact that you want to debunk it by....not limp wristing, is even odder.

    To be honest, I do not think you can limp wrist a firearm without the fingers wrapped around the gun.

    If anyone else sees those vids and agree that you ARE limp wristing, then I will butt out.
     
  19. Bazooka Joe71

    Bazooka Joe71 Member

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    200 rds is not a test...Even if it were out of 1 gun and you had 4.

    A 50 rd test is a joke.

    LOL, sorry. I thought that was funny.
     
  20. Eric F

    Eric F Member

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    I wouldnt even know how to limp wrist anything.....I'm a man Damn it....Every malfunction on any of my pistols I have ever owned was mag extractor ammo or feed ramp related. Folks use this term limp wrist all the time and I can not figure out what they are speaking of.
     
  21. cambeul41

    cambeul41 Member

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    Please. Someone define limp-wristing and propose a way to test it.

    Screeching, "That is not limp-wristing," doesn't help my understanding at all. I have tried a variety of sloppy, loose grips and my guns keep on working. My wife was accused of limp-wristing by a Sig rep after she had a problem with his personal Sig 239 although she had never had a problem with our XDs, Glocks, or Tauruses.
     
  22. JWarren

    JWarren Member

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    Eric,

    It has nothing to do with how much of a "Man" you are-- don't even go there. I can think of a number of men who have "limpwristed" a handgun that you'd not dare suggest that they were not "Man-ly."

    Limpwristing has to do with not "flexing" your wrist while shooting. On some firearms like revolvers, I have found that allowing the weight of the barrel to pull down the firearm and essentially "flex" the firearm with its own weight makes for a more accurate shot. A limpwristed grip on the Ruger Security Six .357 magnum I had as a kid made one of the most accurate handguns I've ever fired.

    That won't work on autos in my experience.

    I really don't get why people get so emotionally involved in this topic. I think the term "limp" seems to imply something wrong with the person or an attack on their masculinity or whatever. Please....

    The reality is that there are plenty of times that a MAN would want his wrist to not be locked. I'd really like to know that a surgeon that operates on me is operating with some care rather than going in like he is gutting a deer.

    People need to figure out what works and move on. I still "limp-wrist" revolvers. Oh, and my beard can take the chrome off a bumper (unfortunately). I'm not too worried about my testosterone levels.


    -- John
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2007
  23. boldkharma

    boldkharma Member

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    Ha ha!!! Limp wristing, if thats what you call it, is real. I love 1911's and Glocks. I have personally witnessed my neighbors daughter "limp wrist" my G17 and she stove piped it twice in two different mags. The G17 has never had a failure when I shoot it. YMMV
     
  24. Slugless

    Slugless Member

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    I know a guy who's been shooting pistols competitively for about 30 years who claims he can make any semiauto malfunction by the way he holds his hand.

    I've "corrected" a brand new "malfunctioning" Glock 17 by showing my friend how to hold his wrist correctly.
     
  25. Bazooka Joe71

    Bazooka Joe71 Member

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    LOL, good for you buddy.


    My one and only 1911 has never malfunctioned when I am using it(after the 2-300 break in rds)...But it malf's once every couple of range sessions when one of my friends or my g/f is shooting it.
     
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