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Defense Distributed Site DEFCAD down, shows message claiming request from US Departme

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Dean Weingarten, May 9, 2013.

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  1. Dean Weingarten

    Dean Weingarten Member

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    The DEFCAD site shows the following:

    DEFCAD files are being removed from public access at the request of the US Department of Defense Trade Controls.


    Until further notice, the United States government claims control of the information.

    Link to DEFCAD site here

    We do not know if this is real or not. There was a similar spoof done on April 1st.

    Link to April 1st spoof story "Breaking: Defense Distributed website seized, Cody Wilson arrested on conspiracy charges!"

    We will learn more in the next few hours. This may be real.

    ©2013 by Dean Weingarten Permission to share granted as long as this notice is included.

    http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2013/05/defense-distributed-site-defcad-down.html
     
  2. MErl

    MErl Member

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    he probably did violate ITAR
     
  3. HarcyPervin

    HarcyPervin Member

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    Twitter shows: #DEFCAD has gone dark at the request of the Department of Defense Trade Controls. Take it up with the Secretary of State
     
  4. Dean Weingarten

    Dean Weingarten Member

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    Given that everyone likely violates several felonies each day, whether they want to or not, maybe they violated ITAR.

    Hard to see how in any real way, though.
     
  5. CoRoMo

    CoRoMo Member

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    The word that I've come across is that...

    Cody removed the file from the site himself when confronted by .gov and is attempting to come to an agreement with them. He mentioned it in an interview today as well.

    The file has been downloaded over 100,000 times and is still up in a lot of places where it's been reposted. I was able to find it in only a few minutes search.
     
  6. wrc

    wrc Member

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    That'll keep the Russians from getting those sweet, sweet pistol plans!
     
  7. Dean Weingarten

    Dean Weingarten Member

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    Thank you for your insight. It does appear that it is "voluntary" under pressure, sort of.
     
  8. 12many

    12many Member

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    Land of the free.
     
  9. r1derbike

    r1derbike Member

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    Home of the brave.
     
  10. Bubbles

    Bubbles Member

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    Oops, not only firearms are regulated under ITAR. Many other items, including certain software algorithms, are also deemed "defense articles" and are subject to export controls. This should be interesting to watch play out, though the whole "US government claims control" is a bit much. USGov can say "do not export this" which pretty effectively removes it from the public domain.

    Of course, if the files have been downloaded over 100,000 times and are hosted on several other sites, this genie is long gone from the bottle.
     
  11. CoRoMo

    CoRoMo Member

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    Yeah, you can't un-break an egg. It's out and staying out.
     
  12. BoilerUP

    BoilerUP Member

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    Seems like a stretch to argue a CAD file for a plastic 3D printed pistol is a risk to national security...
     
  13. Teachu2

    Teachu2 Member

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    A deadly weapon that current detection protocols won't detect? Yeah, no threat THERE! :banghead:
     
  14. BoilerUP

    BoilerUP Member

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    Get back to me when they create plastic ammunition.
     
  15. Fryerpower

    Fryerpower Member

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    And a ceramic firing pin.

    At that point you will have a single shot lump of plastic. Might be a threat if you filled a suitcase with them and used them as New York reloads.

    Jim
     
  16. Bartholomew Roberts

    Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus

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    A single shot lump of plastic that is the size of a Ruger Blackhawk and three times as bulky. Personally, if you are going to shoot at me, my two top choices would be:

    1. The non-AOW pen gun that you have to fold origami style in order to shoot your single shot of .22LR

    2. This thing
     
  17. Dean Weingarten

    Dean Weingarten Member

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    No more of a threat than a composite dagger, I would say.
     
  18. csspecs

    csspecs Member

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    I don't see the threat.. Its basically a zip gun that costs a lot to make.
    Sure its all plastic, but surprising as it may be its been done before with basic hand tools and plastic readily available.. Whats more is it requires less then $200 in tools to make, rather than a $20K+ printer.
     
  19. RX-178

    RX-178 Member

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    The government can send a letter requesting you to do anything at all, it doesn't necessarily mean that they have a real, legal basis (even though they claim one).

    In this case, the State Department REQUESTED that Cody Wilson remove his files, and he complied.

    ...And now that DEFCAD is dark, hundreds of TIMES more people are finding the files on anonymous servers, and bittorrent, because they want to get them while they can. And these people share it further.

    You think maybe Cody Wilson WANTS this to happen?
     
  20. jerkface11

    jerkface11 Member

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    This is going to get good fast.
     
  21. barnbwt

    barnbwt Member

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    from wiki link on the List:
    "1.Firearms, Close Assault Weapons* and Combat Shotguns
    2.Guns and Armament"
    "Any article, service, or related data found to be on the USML requires an export license issued by the United States State Department to be exported (given to a non-U.S. person). "

    Yeah, apparently ITAR gives the feds dominion over the trade of any technology or product developed so long as it pertains to 20 extremely vague categories, which, I suppose is a legitimate function of our federal government, at least. But if we accept that "information" itself, in the form of digital data, is subject to Federal review, then the entire contents of the internet related to those 20 categories is subject to Federal review and approval since it is accessible to the World Wide Web, under penalty of heavy fines/jailtime. Our tips/tricks on AR selection, usage, and construction are certainly in the vein of "military weapons related," don't you think?

    Who wants to bet both DARPA and the Russian/Chinese/Iranian/Israeli equivalents have had undetectable firearms for years, now? :scrutiny: Or do we really think some T-sip stumbled upon something they are wholly unprepared for?

    +1. This is the "logical conclusion" his poking of the ATF bear was intended to illicit. I do applaud his willingness--nay, eagerness--to comply with their shrieking displeasure. If there is one thing self-proclaimed "free market anarchist" Cody Wilson cannot be accused of, it is resisting laws or intentionally breaking them. An example of this is the fact the pistol is smooth-bore, which would make it's construction illegal since it'd be a SBS or AOW (I forget which)--technically, he is not distributing a legally buildable gun, so I could easily see him argue that he is not actually distributing a (legally buildable) firearm because the printer would be already choosing to violate NFA laws. Plastic printers are wholly capable of printing rifling (probably functional, too) along with the barrel ;)

    To be frank, I believe the only legitimate way Cody could be actually barred from distributing this, is some cooked up claim of national security risk. The fact that this tactic wasn't even used suggests to me, that there is no risk posed by the technology, everyone knows it, and they are falling back on the tried-and-true solution of forcing this malcontent to deal with an extremely unhelpful and expensive bureaucracy. If he comes up with a plastic semi-auto, I could see the ATF requesting he submit a sample for "convertability" analysis, but even then, merely distributing the plans for illegal machineguns is, not itself, illegal. The building and possession is, which is why they have to fall back on some broad application of an obviously inapplicable law.

    *What the heck is a "close assault weapon?" A Google search turns up nothing but the Halo shotgun :confused:

    Spooky indeed, but the source of the image is "http://i.imgur.com/2P25RNv.png" --I have a feeling the ATF has its own image server :D. I'm sure Cody is just impressing upon us who is responsible for his decision ;)
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2013
  22. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    Ah me.... :uhoh:

    When the news gets out we'll see another run on guns and ammunition by frightened buyers. :banghead:
     
  23. bigdaa

    bigdaa member

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    And take out the metal plate addition that triggers metal detectors.
     
  24. RX-178

    RX-178 Member

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    Since you're worried about the word getting out, Old Fluff...


    ...This story's right on the front page of Foxnews.com as we speak.
     
  25. barnbwt

    barnbwt Member

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    IF history is any guide, the more prominent this story is, the more unimportant it actually is. Is Lautenberg's goofy plan to register handloaders getting any press? And is the ammo situation easing greatly? Let's not stay too focused on only one half of the gun-control equation.

    I'm sure you could print out one-use plastic cases for low pressure rounds; possibly even rimfire cases. Bullets would be easy to make as well (but probably ineffective at the speeds low-pressure cartridges could deliver them)

    TCB
     
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