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Defensive Ammunition 101

Discussion in 'Shotguns' started by Dave McCracken, Aug 14, 2011.

  1. RetiredUSNChief

    RetiredUSNChief Member

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    Having looked at the results in the Box O' Truth, I'd say whether the buckshot remains in the wad or not at household distances is a moot point. They BOTH equal one large hole.

    ;)
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2014
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  2. Panzerschwein

    Panzerschwein member

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    Oh! I still like #1 buck for HD work, no magical "flight control" wad needed. :D!
     
  3. Zach S

    Zach S Member

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    It may be, yes. But at that point, so would anything you use. You know, a S&W MP9 was designed for Military and Police, hence the name. Buckshot is for hunting, not defense. In any kind of SD shooting, there are all kinds of cards the DA and press might play.

    Orginally, LE buckshot simply meant "low recoil." I ordered Federal LE132 00 (9 pellet 3dram) online for a few years before seeing its commercial cousin, H132 00, on any shelves locally.

    I dont see it being an issue unless you have an overzealous ADA trying to make a name for himself, or desperate to make a case against you, since he doesnt have one.

    Lol. Priceless, that is. Use it, I will.
     
  4. Fred Fuller

    Fred Fuller Moderator Emeritus

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  5. forgiven

    forgiven Member

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    I use the Critical Defense load in my shotty
     
  6. Sauer Grapes

    Sauer Grapes Member

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    My shotguns are all of the ''sporting'' type. Not sure why I never invested in a ''HD'' type.
     
  7. Robert149

    Robert149 Member

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    Does Suprema make a 3" 00 buck, 12 gage shell?
     
  8. wbstx11

    wbstx11 Member

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    We learned in Viet Nam that "# 4 buck" (27 of .24-inch pellets) was a much more effective anti-personnel stopper than "000 buck" (eight .36-inch pellets). I would consider our experience there as real live test data. Basically, you have a much higher opportunity to hit something critical and the wound channel isn't much different compared to the additional wounds; but if you're only 5 ft away just about any load will do the job. I think that inside a house a 20ga with birdshot would be very effective. (I have a Remy 1100 20ga hanging on the back of the headboard)
     
  9. Panzerschwein

    Panzerschwein member

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    I am not aware of much 000 buckshot being used in Vietnam. 00, certainly. #4, yes. There was some military #4 produced. But 000? That's news to me.
     
  10. wbstx11

    wbstx11 Member

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    I stand corrected, yes both 00 (9 pellets?) and #4 were available. This was in '69, and some 12 ga pumps were available - basically an option for the "point man" when we were in jungle. The M79 shot round was ineffective. Frankly, I preferred my M16 to a shotgun - ammo was limited for the 12 when we got into a firefight. Same reason no one carried a 45 either.
     
  11. vito

    vito Member

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    Any thoughts on Hornady Critical Defense shotgun ammunition? I use Hornady Critical Defense in my handguns but I had never even heard of them making shotgun ammo. Any recommendations? I see that it is carried on Cheaper than Dirt and is a bit more expensive than competing brands off OO buck 12 gauge.
     
  12. JamieC

    JamieC Member

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    Vito, Hornady generally makes good stuff, I wouldn't have any issues loading it in my shotgun. That said, buy a box or two of it, get another brand or two, take 'em out to the range and pattern them, this way you'll learn what works in YOUR gun...learning is FUN!
     
  13. Merle1

    Merle1 Member

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    Comment about reloads: I have seen this same claim made for handgun ammo. I have also seen requests for published court cases where that was an issue. I have not yet seen any published responses, which makes me think it doesn't happen - OR is a rare circumstance.

    Do you have any verifiable data on this?

    Otherwise, I very much agree with your post.
     
  14. Slugnuts

    Slugnuts Member

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    Buckshot, one more round if needed
     
  15. vito

    vito Member

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    I'll admit to being a total novice in regard to shotguns. I recently bought a Mossberg 500, 20 inch barrel, with an extended magazine (it claims to be able to hold 8 but I could only get 7 in), and I have it loaded with Federal 00 buck. I've only been to the range with it once so far, and I'm getting myself familiar with handling and firing this gun. My question is: for my handguns I have trusted Hornady Critical Defense ammo. I see that Hornady makes a defensive 00 buck. Is there any substantial difference between various brands of 00 buck and does the Hornady offer anything to justify its higher cost?
     
  16. lemaymiami

    lemaymiami Member

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    Buy what you like - but basic 2 3/4" 00buck with nine .33 cal pellets is a close range (less than fifty feet) fight ender - every time... if you do your part. I always advised to aim just a tiny bit low in that real life, heart stopping moment... It will serve you well.

    All that's needed is to pattern whatever brand you're using so you know how it behaves in your weapon... and know just what the pattern spread will be at a given distance. Every old riot gun my agency used ( a mix of Remingtons and Mossbergs with 18 - 20" improved cylinder barrels) pretty much could be counted on to spread out at one inch per meter from the muzzle. In other words at 7 meters you could count on a 7" spread, etc. You'll have to verify that with your weapon though and whatever ammo you choose.
     
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  17. cwl1862

    cwl1862 Member

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    I keep my HD shotgun loaded with #4 Buck either standard 21-27 pellet variety or the Fed 2 3/4 Magnum 34 pellet variety I think at most home defense distances it will perform admirably. If it's good enough for the FBI it's good enough for me. :) Besides I live in a condo and I don't want a load of 00 buck sailing thru the BG, a wall or two and injuring or killing my neighbor; you get less penetration with 4 buck verses 00 or 000 buck. Yeah bird shot may work but I'm not willing to bet my life on it. #4 Buck has all the energy you need to knock a BG on his butt and effectively end the fight.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2017
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  18. strambo

    strambo Member

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    Agreed, #4 is a solid choice in a condo. 20-30 separate .24 cal wound tracks in the upper chest is great terminal performance. I have #1 Buck for the first few rounds backed by Hornady low recoil TAP 00 for the rest of the magazine and on the side saddle. The #1 patterns about 12" for me at 10yds (farther than any realistic shot in my small house) and the low recoil TAP does about 2.5" at that distance. The TAP is my suburban answer to a slug, it really allows me to reach out if needed, 7"-8" patterns at 25yds.
     
  19. Lycidas Janwor

    Lycidas Janwor Member

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  20. ZVP

    ZVP Member

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    Great point,the spouse is holding a revolver!
    All in all very rep ndable tools to defend family and castle.
     
  21. Shae1324

    Shae1324 Member

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    I am 5' 2" and I weigh 138 lbs. The recovery time for someone of my size shooting 00 Buck is sightly longer than most of you fella's even despite training (five years in the USMC, OIF). Its just a simple matter of physics. I prefer the knock down of 00, and at the range its nice. But with an engagement distance of 25 feet in my single level home, and with 2 kids in the house, I load with 7 1/2 and stack a couple of 00 in my side saddle just in case. Over penetration is a very real issue, and let's face it, if it doesn't kill, it's still gonna hurt like hell. By that time, if five rounds of birdshot hasn't taken care of it, I've still got the 00 as back up.
     
  22. Blkhrt13

    Blkhrt13 Member

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    Wolf 9 pellet stays in my shotguns. It's recoil isn't too bad and I can't help but think it's get it done.
     
  23. strambo

    strambo Member

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    Well, also consider that since the birdshot won't likely physically stop them, they could be shooting back as you go through those 5rds, then pause to load off the side-saddle. They may not feel pain due to drugs and adrenaline either.

    Also consider, yes recovery time from buckshot recoil is more for you, but only a fraction of a second more. However, if the 00 stops the threat in 1-2rds and the birdshot doesn't at all, there was no gain in being able to shoot more of the less-effective rounds faster.

    With your military background, an AR would both solve the recoil issue, have way better terminal performance than birdshot, and still penetrate less than 00 buck or any handgun round.

    My HD is an AR with RDS and light, I also have mapped out my fields of fire in relation to the kids rooms, areas where the BGs would be, and my likely points of domination. I can engage from my bed left to the door frame w/o endangering them and if I move to the door or top of stairs, my whole field of fire is nowhere near any friendlies.
     
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  24. Blkhrt13

    Blkhrt13 Member

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    I don't personally load my hd weapons with bird shot. But inside of home distances I'm pretty sure anything at all will not open the spread more than a tight fist. I'd venture at twenty feet or less it all prolly hits with the wad in a knot. I know a guy who caught a close up with birdshot and his knee was never the same again. He wasn't in the fight anymore.
     
  25. JSmith

    JSmith Member

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    I have a Mossberg 500 20 ga. with 5-round capacity. My first 3 rounds are #2 buck; the last two are slugs.
     
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