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Defensive pistol instructor-IDIOT!

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by MachIVshooter, Oct 19, 2006.

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  1. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    "The Walther P-22 is an excellent choice for a defensive handgun. .22 will kill you just as fast as anything; the bullets bounce around inside you. It's the preferred caliber of assassins."

    ......Who kill their targets with a head shot at point blank range and have all the time in the world.

    Still amazes me that, with all the data to refute it, this ".22 caliber bouncing bullet" myth persists.

    Seriously, has anyone else here ever met an "instructor" who would use such a ridiculous argument and actually advise his students to use anything less than the most potent weapon they can effectively handle?

    I completely shut this guy out after he claimed that he could "shoot 25 yard groups with a stock XD-45 that you can cover with a quarter" :rolleyes:
     
  2. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    Dude..... Where is that guy teaching? That's amazing.

    Like they say I guess, and it's true more often than not I suppose.

    Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach.
     
  3. strambo

    strambo Member

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    If it is a pistol course...wouldn't he have opportunity to prove it? Anyway, a good instructor's resume is the capability of their students. He may have been a top bullseye competitor and can do that with his XD-45 (more accurate than normal sample). Doesn't mean he can teach others to do the dissimilar skills of gun handling and adequate marksmanship under stress and at speed at 3ft to 10 yards.
     
  4. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    I've never had an instructor that was that idiotic.

    OTOH I would take evil delight in asking them to please demonstrate this skill so that we could all learn to follow in their footsteps.:evil:
     
  5. Manedwolf

    Manedwolf member

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    It'd be funny if it wasn't likely that someone taking his classes could get killed by following his advice.
     
  6. AJ Dual

    AJ Dual member

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    He didn't by chance have a "tactical wheelbarrow" did he? :rolleyes:
     
  7. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    He was at the gun store my little sister just started working in, buying a Walther P-99 9mm (another outrageous claim from him-"Walthers have been winning the olympic matches for 16 years. Best barrels in the world").

    This guy also tells me that he offers his student the opportunity to purchase his loaner guns after the course, claiming that he has gone through 80 guns so far this year. Sure hope he's an FFL and has been doing form 4473's on these guns, but I doubt it since he himself filled one out for the P-99.

    Like I said, idiot. I wouldn't have believed he was an instructor if others hadn't confirmed it. He definitely shoudln't be.
     
  8. EddieCoyle

    EddieCoyle Member

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    I can do this all day long. Of course, I consider one shot to be a "group".
     
  9. Justin

    Justin Moderator Emeritus

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    THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL
    Walthers, like the OSP and GSP models have been used to win a lot of International pistol events, as well as NRA-style Bullseye. I wouldn't be surprised to see that they'd been used to win Olympic pistol matches, but the current favorites seem to be either the Feinwerkbau AW93 or Pardini SP-New, with older shooters showing a preference for the out-of-production Hammerli 208.

    In my not-so-humble opinion, the Walther P-22 isn't useful for anything more than plinking at tin cans.
     
  10. mete

    mete Member

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    " bouncing bullet" ? The 22 doesn't bounce but is has a long reputation of being easily deflected ! I shot a woodchuck with non HP bullet and it killed the chuck then deflected 45 degrees and exited the chuck. Pres Regan was shot with a 22 , the bullet entered the chest cavity , bounced off a rib and punctured a lung. Surgeons have long known that the 22 bullet can go into a person and be deflected far from the entrance and this is what makes the 22 so dangerous .
     
  11. romma

    romma Member

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    I would even offer to buy the ammo...
     
  12. Pilgrim

    Pilgrim Member

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    He wasn't by any chance a former Navy SEAL/Marine Force Recon/Special Forces scout-sniper with fifteen Purple Heart awards, etc.?

    Pilgrim
     
  13. orangelo

    orangelo member

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    Anyone on this forum could probably do that... if you locked the XD into a vise.
     
  14. ceetee

    ceetee Member

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    Did he have one of those scopes that gets it's sight picture via satellite?

    (I always wanted one of those...)
     
  15. entropy

    entropy Member

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    I thought Gunkid was dead......:uhoh:
     
  16. Chris Rhines

    Chris Rhines Member

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    You know, it would be totally cool to publish the name of this so-called instructor. Just as a community service...

    - Chris
     
  17. Odd Job
    • Contributing Member

    Odd Job Can probably X-ray it

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    As regards .22s being deflected:

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/084...lance&n=283155

    In Di Maio's book, Chapter 9 deals with 'Bloody Bodies and Bloody Scenes.'
    Di Maio noted that of 185 cases of suicide by .22, only 20% of those bullets exited. Of 60 cases of homicide by .22 only 6.6% exited. These figures are from gunshot heads only. He further adds: "...of the bullets that do not exit the head, the vast majority are retained in the cranial cavity. Thus, internal ricochet is fairly common, occurring in anywhere from 10 to 15% of the cases..." (See page 264 and 265)

    Also, you can give Malcolm Dodd's book 'Terminal Ballistics' a read:

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/084...lance&n=283155

    In Dodd's book, Chaper 8 deals with the 'Rimfire .22 Projectile.'
    Dodd acknowledges that "...the .22 short and LR rounds also have the reputation of internal ricochet within the cranium, further creating complex injury patterns..." (See page 41)

    You have not been charged for this research which I have conducted on your behalf :p

    But yes, .22 shouldn't be recommended for defense because of deflections and ricochets.
     
  18. tsalaf666

    tsalaf666 Member

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    haha, i agree 100%. my dad, true to jewish tradition, is a lawyer and just a little while ago had a case where two druggies got in a fight, one pulled a .22 and shot the other a few times, the guy (who was not high at the time) tried to wrestle the gun away from him while being shot cause of course .22's are so weak. in the end the shooter, after puting half his clip into the other guy, got lucky and a round managed to slip past his rib cage and pierce his aorta and he died. when the cops arrived at the scene they found bullets that had fallen out of the guys body cause they were too weak to penetrate deep enough.

    anyhoo, ya, that instructors an idiot.
     
  19. Jim K

    Jim K Member

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    Well, I think I can top that, though the weapon was a rifle, not a pistol.

    The instructor was a U.S. Army sergeant, and he told us trainees that the ammunition we would be firing in the M1 rifle was "practice ammunition" (ball) with only enough power to penetrate the paper target, after which it fell to the ground.

    He informed us that if we were in battle, we would be issued "real combat" ammuntion with a black tip (AP) which could actually harm someone.

    I was sorely tempted to ask him to stand behind a target while I riddled it with some of that harmless practice ammo, but I didn't think he would take kindly to a wiseass private.

    Jim
     
  20. EvisceratorSrB

    EvisceratorSrB Member

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    Ah it wouldn't any good. Noobs won't see through the BS, so he'll have a steady stream of customers no matter what.

    But I suppose warning the semi-gun-educated will help at least a little.
     
  21. CombatArmsUSAF

    CombatArmsUSAF Member

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    Sounds like a couple of NRA instructors I had the displeasure of meeting last year. They spent more time talking themselves up than teaching.
     
  22. ETXhiker

    ETXhiker Member

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    :confused: A .22 bullet often takes strange turns, as ALL bullets are known to do at times (please, no Warren Comission jokes.) The .22 is dangerous because it pokes holes in people and lets the inside-stuff out and the outside-stuff in.

    A bullet that hits a rib and smashes through it is more deadly than one weak enough to bounce off and go in another direction.
     
  23. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    Mike something. Didn't catch the last name, but he operates in Ft. Collins. I'll ask my sister for the name of his outfit the next time I speak to her.

    As an aside, this guy is certainly entitled to his opinions, but the problem lies in the fact that he is imparting his opinion on beginners, and it is represented as fact. Many of his students will take what he says to heart. Recommending .22's for PD, advocating extreme accuracy over speed, etc. is doing a great disservice to his trainee's.
     
  24. scottw

    scottw Member

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    P22

    I hate to hear these kind of problems with teachers. I teach in small sessions and use the P22 because a brick of 500 is $8.00 and you can shoot all afternoon. Practice is required to become proficient with any pistol and after training I suggest them to buy as big a weapon as they can handle. At the club there is always someone there that will let you shoot their pistol. On any given day a person can shoot anything from a 22 to a 45.
     
  25. Wesker

    Wesker member

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    When was the last time he spoke to an assassin? If I'm perched on a rooftop with the intent of putting a bullet through the dome of some emissary, I wont use a .22 with virtually no penetrating power at 100yds.

    Heck, even the most cheesiest Hollywood movie depicts lone wolf snipers with at LEAST a .223 rifle. You should have chimed in with the other bit of common knowledge that you don't even need to hit your target with a .50 to kill it. It'll tear his limbs right off.
     
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