define liberal, conservative, libertarian

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Ukraine Train

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I know liberals' and conservatives' approach to guns but am unfamiliar with their traditional views on the rest of government. Can someone enlighten me? I'd also like to hear about libertarianism as a lot of people are advocating it. I vowed not to get involved with politics when I was a kid but I find that harder to do nowadays heh.
 
Those are high context words, meaning, you have to be applying them to a particular case in order to make sense of them.

In the American form of representative govt TODAY, if you take a continuum between high state control and high individual freedom as its poles, liberal is towards state control while conservative is towards individual freedom. Libertarian as applies to the American form of govt only occurs in the vacuum of space.
 
The real answer is that they mean nothing. Absolutely nothing. We have left and right. The scale IMO, is something like this, with the founders falling into place as noted with the 'F'.

Democrats----------------------Libertarians----F--Republicans-----Constitution Party

The Demorats represent good old fashioned communism. The Libertarians are "responsible liberals" and are very close to the mark, but are a bit too liberal on some issues. The Republicans are pretty close to the mark, but a bit to the right on a few social issues. The Constitution Party is as far to the right as is morally acceptable, any further and you're looking at a theocracy.
 
Fix,

That's actually pretty good. I'd never thought about it that way.

Awesome! Good description.

FWIW, on those political compass tests, I usually come up as a very right leaning Libertarian. Whatever that means.

I support Libertarian views of most things, with the glaring exception of open borders and non agression. If we eliminated the welfare goodies to be had, I think illegal immigration would be less of a problem, sure. But I don't think it would stop. I think we should be kicking folks out at this point. And shooting border jumpers. To do otherwise is to invitre crime and disease into this country. JMHO.

Non agression? That only works if the rest of the world agrees. I do think we have our noses in too many other people's business. I say we pull out of all these countries who say they hate us, let them sink on their own. I'm tired of subsidizing the world with my taxes.

Rant over.
 
Unfortunately, with the exception of the libertarians, its hard to see who is what without a score sheet.

If you go waaaaay back, to the late 1700's or so, a liberal of the day would have more in common with a modern libertarian. Nowadays that's quite obviously not the case.

In the more modern era, say the 1920's to the late '70's, early 80's conservatives were typically marked by being resistant to changing things, as well as adherence to the concept of 'that which governs least, governs best.' In other words, fewer taxes, less government intrusion. Liberals of the era were marked by policies advocating bigger government and higher taxes.

Currently, conservatism is deader than disco and has been replaced with neo-conservatism, which espouses many of the ideals traditionally held by conservatives, but generally involves massive government spending to realize those ideals.

In other words, neo-cons don't see massive governmental growth as a bad thing, which would be a concept considered anathema to traditional, or old-school conservatives.

Examples of each:

Old School liberals- Locke, the Founding Fathers
Modern liberals- Hillary Clinton, Charles Schumer, John McCain
Traditional Conservatives- Barry Goldwater, Ronald Reagan, Florence King
Neo-Conservatives- Joseph McCarthy,* Jonah Goldberg, John McCain, George W. Bush
libertarians- see old school liberals**, Rep. Ron Paul, P.J. O'Rourke, Ludwig Von Mises, Murray Rothbard

In the end, labels such as 'conservative' or 'liberal' tend to be very fluid.



*McCarthy could possibly be seen as an embryonic neo-con.

**Obviously the founding fathers might not agree with every conclusion drawn by modern libertarians, but they certainly have more in common with them than any other currently flouted ideology.
 
I usually come up as a very right leaning Libertarian. Whatever that means.

Probably means you are a productive member of society, have sound moral principles, believe strongly in personal responsibility and freedom, but you are not necessarily governed by strict religious principles. In other words, pretty darn close to the model American.

How'd I do?

FWIW, I'm straddling the 's' in Constitution...
 
fix-

Libertarians do not fit the traditional one-dimensional political continuum as you've drawn it. If Democrats represent communisim, then the libertarians would be completely at the other end due to their belief in a nearly, or completely unfettered free market.

The Left------------------------Right political spectrum is nowhere near reflective of current political viewpoints.

Whereas the traditional continuum is drawn on a single dimension- a straight horizontal line, ie the X-axis, one more reflective of todays politics would have both an X and a Y-axis and look like a flat plane instead of a simple line.

The best example of this can be seen in what is termed 'The World's Smallest Political Quiz'

s050_050.gif


Image taken from:
http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html
 
but you are not necessarily governed by strict religious principles.

Kinda funny. I'm one of the most religious people I've ever met. I attend worship regularly, follow strict religious/moral guidelines, ask for guidance on a daily basis, contribute time and money to church activities and I'm actually working on my ordainment.

I just don't proselytize. I figure if others want to know, they'll ask.
And I don't expect others to live by my rules. that's just silly.



That's actually pretty good. I'd never thought about it that way
I guess I should add that I meant it as far as the standard, one dimensional view goes. Sometimes the compass outlook is a little crowded and confusing.
 
Regarding the quiz.

I've always suspected that thing was nothing more than a neat little gimmick intended to make people think that they are libertarians. Manipulating answers to try to achieve an intended result seems to bear this out for me. I've read the FAQ, and their answer for this, so no need to try to convert me.
 
I've always suspected that thing was nothing more than a neat little gimmick intended to make people think that they are libertarians

Of course! Like any group, they want as many "followers" as possible. Winning converts is a time honored tradition in religion as well as politics. The more parishioners(read-voters) you have, the more money and power you recieve. It's been going on for hundreds of years.
The only person I trust less than a politician is a journalist.
Some of them are trustworthy, but as a whole, it's best to take everything they say with a salt lick.
 
fjolnirsson,
How do you handle being required to enforce laws as a Peace Officer that conflict with your personal beliefs? After all, there is no greater tacit approval for a law than taking part in the apparatus that punishes violators.

FWIW, the original definitions of "liberal" and "conservative" were more literal. As in, liberals were more liberal when it came to changes within the system whereas conservatives were more conservative about change. These meanings have shifted quite a bit and now come with all kinds of positions on specific issues attached to the label.

I have to laugh at Republicans who tell me their party supports the concept of smaller government. Anyone that claims that obviously hasn't been paying attention to the political scene for the past decade or so.
 
In the modern American political parlance …

“liberal†= protecting certain freedoms while limiting others
“conservative†= limiting certain freedoms while protecting others
“libertarian†= protecting as many freedoms as possible

The terms “liberal†and “conservative†have lost all objective meaning. I believe “libertarian†is of more recent coinage precisely because of this.

~G. Fink
 
The American definition of "liberal" is a misnomer.

Liberal means follower of liberalism, either social or classical, or some other variant. Deviant from advocacy of state control.
 
Wow, didn't think I'd get so many convoluted answers lol. I guess my next question is what's the difference between "left" and "right?" Thanks for the replies so far.
 
Well they do support the concept of smaller government, smaller than the Democrats, but not small...or even smallest.
I was using "smaller" as in reference to current size, but I'm not sure that they want something all that smaller than the Dems. Just larger in different areas.
In the time that Repubs have had control of the Legislative and Executive branches, the gov't has grown by leaps and bounds. We have seen nothing of this mythical "smaller government" that Repubs supposedly are trying to wrest from the hands of the Dems.

I may disagree with 'em, but at least the Dems are honest that they want to steal more of my money to support programs I don't want.
I guess my next question is what's the difference between "left" and "right?"
Well, now, that depends on where you stand, doesn't it?
Generally speaking, "right" tends towards nationalism and a strong, centralized government to achieve that.
"Left", on the other hand (so to speak), tends towards socialism and a strong, centralized government to achieve that.
 
For the most part, those "areas" tend to be the one's the founders discussed in the Constitution.
*grin* Like a large standing army, eh? Or the War on Drugs?
And how exactly does a strong central government promote nationalism?
Fix, I don't have time to go into all the ways a strong, centralized government can be used to promote Nationalism, so I'll just give the short answer. Germany, 1938.
 
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