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Demographics and RKBA

Discussion in 'Activism Discussion and Planning' started by scoutsabout, Jan 19, 2010.


What do you think about age requirements for CCW?

  1. Just fine the way it is: 21 years old.

    28 vote(s)
  2. Needs to be dropped to 18 years old.

    30 vote(s)
  3. With proper instruction we can drive a car at 16... and CCW should be there too.

    6 vote(s)
  4. 21 years old for men, 18 years old for women... to discourage rape and disparity of force.

    3 vote(s)
  5. 21 years old for men, 16 years old for women... to discourage rape and disparity of force.

    0 vote(s)
  6. Other suggestions and ideas, posted in the thread...

    4 vote(s)
  1. BlayGlock

    BlayGlock Member

    Jan 18, 2009
    Ditto. I like the way Texas handles CCW permits. You have to take a class and demonstrate that you can handle a gun safely. Same with a car. I do belive that they could lower the age to 18 with the same criteria. Now if we could get them to do away with gun free zones we would be onto something there.
  2. Kyle1886

    Kyle1886 New Member

    Dec 19, 2009
    A 21 year old can fly a military fighter jet worth millions, but yet not, (in some states) rent a vehicle. Unfortunately these "laws" cannot be based on an individual basis. One person at 16 may be more mature than a 50 year old or have better judgement. For my vote, 18 if out of school, employed, etc. Otherwise 21.
  3. mokin

    mokin Member

    Jan 13, 2007
    Western Colorado
    I think comparing any right or privelidge to what a person is judged capable of while serving in the military is misplaced when extended to those outside the military. To even get to wear a uniform a person undergoes very intense training. When it comes to using a rifle, driving a tank, using explosives, or whatever, the person is required to have even more training and demonstrate that they know what they are doing with that piece of equipment.

    Resorting to a concealed handgun as self defense should be the last resort. While some folks may be able to accept this at 18 I believe the odds are against it. For better or for worse, I think 21 is a pretty good age (especially when the years 18-21 are/were spent in the military).
  4. BlisteringSilence

    BlisteringSilence Member

    Nov 30, 2005
    Central Arkansas
    To the OP:

    Your poll has a fundamental flaw in it, with the age disparity based on gender. The Supreme Court held in Craig v. Boren (429 U.S. 190) that gender is a suspect class, and that laws differentiating a suspect class inherently violate the Equal Protections clause of the Constitution.

    Personally, I voted for dropping the age to 18, as should be the drinking age. When you establish the age of majority for legal/criminal matters, you are establishing what is an adult. An adult is an adult. Period.

    Finally, unless I am mistaken, 21 is not an across the board age for CCW/CHL/Concealed Carry. In Missouri, for example, the age is 23.
  5. scoutsabout

    scoutsabout Member

    Dec 14, 2009
    Paradise (Pacific Northwest)
    Good point, dude!

    That's how it used to be!
  6. scoutsabout

    scoutsabout Member

    Dec 14, 2009
    Paradise (Pacific Northwest)
    I just threw the gender-specific choices in there to spice things up. I agree that any gender-specific legislation would be discriminatory. We've done it with race (Equal Opportunity), so I just wanted to see how it might affect this discussion. No one would argue that women are generally at a disadvantage physically, so I thought it might follow that they should be given "Equal Opportunity" with regard to defensive firearms.

    ie: if a less-qualified ethnic minority can get a job, over the more qualified non-minority, because the minority is percieved to be at a disadvantage... then why can't the "weaker" sex carry a gun at an earlier age? I was just thinking that maybe, after we lower the age to 18, we could make a gender-exception for women and qualify them at 16. That would invariably cut down our rape statistics. Besides, 16 year old girls are less likely to turn an argument into a gun fight, as might 16 year old boys be more disposed to doing.

    I saw some great footage from one of Massad Ayoob's classes, where he talked about disperity of force as it relates to women. He stated, for example, that legal precedent would tend to protect the use of a firearm by a 200-pound female body builder against a 120-pound unarmed male attacker. He also defended the use of deadly force against a rapist, and gave credence to the logic and legal precedent behind it.

    Anyway, this discussion is still primarily about age.
  7. dbltp

    dbltp New Member

    Apr 24, 2009
    Well I think some people are missing a pretty important fact about the biological differences between a 16 or 18 yo and a 21 yo. Especially when it comes to the development of the frontal lobes of the brain.

    There is a reason that younger (usually men) people seem to have a lack of impulse control and tend to not think about their actions. Its because the frontal areas of the brain are the last to develop and this is where all the higher order "considering the consequences of my actions" thinking takes place.

    It is kind of ironic/coincidental that the OP points out women being able to ccw before men. Women tend to develop the impulse control (that is often synonymous with maturity) earlier than men and on that basis may be more able to handle the responsibility of carrying a gun at an earlier age.

    So that is (in very brief detail) my argument for leaving the CCW age right where it is. At 21 most all brain development is done and the person at least has the full capacity to make thoughtful decisions about the consequences of their actions, whether or not they choose to make use of it.
  8. sherman123

    sherman123 Member

    Dec 20, 2007
    I don't even believe a permit should be required for ccw. I wouldn't want any set age limit for ccw. In fact, I probably would have carried daily since I was about 16, if it were an option.
  9. shockwave

    shockwave Senior Member

    Jan 8, 2010
    Agreed. Also, CCW is a specific activity that has to be viewed on its own. Alcohol, driving, marriage, other privileges do not affect the rationale for regulating CCW. Also spurious is the idea that "some" 18 year olds are mature enough for CCW. The law seeks to strike a balance and can't discriminate on that basis. The laws regarding firearms should, ideally IMO, be at least as restrictive as those concerning driving. Training, a safety course, demonstration of proficiency are all reasonable requirements prior to the issuance of a CCW permit.
  10. wishin

    wishin Senior Member

    Nov 20, 2009
    I know for a fact that at 18 years old I was not as mature as I should have been. I was in the Army, which helped me to grow up, but did some stupid, immature things. If we're all honest with ourselves, few of us had reached full maturity at that age. I say leave it as it is.

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