Destructive Devices....legal steps to own and use one..

[saturno_v]

Let's make a simple practical example of, let's say, a 155mm Howitzer.

What are the legal steps a civilian must undertake to own one?? Where and when he/she can use it?? Under what circumstances?? Under monitoring??

I know that some states ban the ownership of destructive devices by civilians.

What is the upper (Federal) legal limit of destructive decives civilian ownership??

Can you legally own (at least in some states) a B-52 loaded with bombs?? What about a figher jet armed with missiles and cannons??

Some pieces of hardware have ad-hoc legislation to limit private ownership??

The ultimate extreme example...what is the specific law that bans ownership of a nuclear weapon by a civilian??

I'm curious about this often poorly understood part of weapon legislation.


I was one, among many, that thought that "you cannot own a cannon in the US...or any firearm bigger than 50 cal. (excluding shotguns)" but then I realized that is not true.

Regards

 

[General Geoff]

Can you legally own (at least in some states) a B-52 loaded with bombs?? What about a figher jet armed with missiles and cannons??

If you can find someone who's legally selling a B-52, you can certainly purchase it. Same with the bombs ($200 tax stamp on each one, though). Fighter jet, same thing. But the cannon has to be dismantled because of the 1986 machine gun ban. Everything else on it is kosher, if you can afford it (missiles are stupid expensive).

The hard part is finding military jets and weapons to purchase. And only a millionaire could reasonably afford to fly such a jet on even an occasional basis.


There are currently two Sukhoi Su-27 Flankers for sale to anyone who can afford them. http://www.prideaircraft.com/flanker.htm

 

[Bane]

The simple answer to your question is: yes it is possible to own destructive devices as a civilian.

The more complicated answer is: ownership depends on state laws and each device (canon, motar, gernade, bomb, explosive shell) requires registration (tax stamp) and anything explosive will likely have storage requirements (which could be as elaborate as an underground bunker).

I am by no means an expert but lots of great info can be found in the AR15.com Armory section in the Destructive Devices sub-forum. The people over there have lots of knowledge too.

 

[Floppy_D]

... a B-52 loaded with bombs??

Just make sure your 4096 is Class C and altitude capable, should you get within 30 miles of Class B airspace.

 

[nalioth]

Can you legally own (at least in some states) a B-52 loaded with bombs?? What about a figher jet armed with missiles and cannons??

If you can find someone who's legally selling a B-52, you can certainly purchase it. Same with the bombs ($200 tax stamp on each one, though). Fighter jet, same thing. But the cannon has to be dismantled because of the 1986 machine gun ban.

If one can afford the fighter jet, you can certainly can afford a transferable minigun to outfit it . .

 

[General Geoff]

The cannon on most American jet fighter aircraft is an M61 Vulcan, not a Minigun. I am not certain whether there are any NFA-registered M61s in circulation.

 

[highorder]

I am not certain whether there are any NFA-registered M61s in circulation.

I'm going to guess...no.

 

[General Geoff]

I wouldn't be surprised if there was one or two, but I doubt the current owner(s) would be willing to sell them.

 

[saturno_v]

The hard part is finding military jets and weapons to purchase. And only a millionaire could reasonably afford to fly such a jet on even an occasional basis.

Actually not hard at all to find military jets for sale

Many very wealthy aviation aficionados own them...Larry Ellison, CEO or Oracle has two Migs, Paul Allen, co-founder of Microsoft own an entire collection, John Travolta own an F-4 Phantom.

During the 90's stock market boom buying Russian military jets was a fairly common "hobby" for millionaire daredevil CEOs...

Some F-4 Phantoms available for sale in Arizona at the 309th Aerospace Maintenance Group...you can get one for less than $500.000, the problem is the operating costs...

 

[TehK1w1]

Not to pull it off-topic, but anyone who could afford a fighter jet could afford to set up as an FFL. Would it be possible to build the M61 as a post-86 dealer sample?

EDIT: Yeah, maintainence can be killer for aircraft. Worse than boats...

 

[nalioth]

The cannon on most American jet fighter aircraft is an M61 Vulcan, not a Minigun. I am not certain whether there are any NFA-registered M61s in circulation.

Yes, I'm quite aware of the differences.

• Money-no-object, a transferable minigun is obtainable w/o getting a SOT and flying around a "dealer sample".
• Not only is the minigun more easily obtainable, so is the ammo (20mm rounds are not easy to get)
• The minigun should be able to be easily mounted into the aircraft (just some new brackets to make up for the size differences)
• The lighter minigun should give you at least a tenth of a gallon per minute fuel bonus

 

[CoRoMo]

Well, when your privately owned island is out of the jurisdiction of the BATFE...

 

[highorder]

With unlimited funds, it's probably far EASIER to set up a tin-pot republic offshore than it is to jump through the BATFE's hoops!

 

[armoredman]

The F4s at the boneyard at DMAFB will need just a WEE bit more maintenance than one would think - almost everything electronic was removed when they were prepped for long term storage, IIRC. Drove by that "lot" for years. So you may get a pretty plane shell for $500G, but will need a bit more to make it flyable.

 

[Hatterasguy]

If you have the money don't even bother doing it in this country. Do it in a country with more favorable laws for such activities, or buy your own island and have fun.

 

[Avizpls]

OK, what country has more favorable laws.

And nobody has touched on owning a nuke yet. Remember, unlimited funds.

 

[NMGonzo]

I want a submarine ... diesel please.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

Building a nuclear device is not nearly the difficult task it was 60 years ago. Obtaining the materials is the only real hurdle, and many of those can be commercially obtained. The real trick is getting and refining the fissile material. I'm only guessing here, but I would bet there is an EPA law against possession of fissile material in a big enough quantity to make your bomb any more than a mock-up

 

[Gungnir]

Building a nuclear device is not nearly the difficult task it was 60 years ago. Obtaining the materials is the only real hurdle, and many of those can be commercially obtained. The real trick is getting and refining the fissile material. I'm only guessing here, but I would bet there is an EPA law against possession of fissile material in a big enough quantity to make your bomb any more than a mock-up

Yeah there are many. not to mention the NRC.. Check out this story.
http://www.dangerouslaboratories.org/radscout.html

 

[CleverNickname]

Here's the relevant US Code governing nukes.

 

[Elvishead]

Maybe you should ask the FBI or the CIA about this. I'm watching you!

 

[WoofersInc]

Many very wealthy aviation aficionados own them...Larry Ellison, CEO or Oracle has two Migs, Paul Allen, co-founder of Microsoft own an entire collection, John Travolta own an F-4 Phantom

.

Also the owner of Dillon has quite a few fighters also.

 

[22lr]

There was a big deal a few years back about a F-18 airframe that was for sale but hadnt been properly demilled so it was technically still considered a fighter. I want to say the government ended up stepping in a destroying it before the sale took place, but I might be mistaken on the last part there.

 

[shotgunjoel]

The ultimate extreme example...what is the specific law that bans ownership of a nuclear weapon by a civilian??

You realize that 95% of the COUNTRIES in the world are forbidden from even trying to build nuclear weapons by international treaty and law!? Good luck convincing the ATF that you need to build one in your basement. Is there even a point to this thread?

 

[Sam1911]

Is there even a point to this thread?

Sure there's a point to the thread. A good one in fact.

Saturno asked how to go about purchasing a large bore destructive device and got some good info on that. The conversation expanded to cover some thorny (and largely theoretical) questions about how the law COULD be seen to allow private ownership of some pretty heavy duty ordinance. And members have added what they know regarding other (non-NFA related) laws that limit or prohibit certain materials, and which provide a non-theoretical limit on what you can own.

I think it has been a pretty cool thread!