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Developing load for ACP .45 lead RN

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by JimGun, Mar 28, 2010.

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  1. JimGun

    JimGun Member

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    I have just received from Missouri Bullet my Lead RN 230 gr. bullets. According to Hodgdon website, the low load for these rounds is:
    4.5 grs. H. Universal with C.O.L. of 1.200” producing 703 fps.
    From my Speer Manual 13th Ed. the low load for these rounds is:
    5.2 grs. H. Universal with C.O.L. of 1.270” producing 748 fps.

    I would like an informed opinion of the effect of C.O.L. on shot performance.
    Additionally, since I always like to start at the lowest load on a new bullet load and work my way up, I would like to know of any pitfalls with starting at the 4.5 gr load?

    thanks for any info,

    Jim
     
  2. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    1.200 is way too short for a RN 230 Gr lead bullet. 1.265 is more like it.

    5.2 Grs Universal with that bullet between 1.265 to 1.270 will be a perfectly safe place to start. Shoot for 1.268 and you should stay within 1.265 and 1.270.
     
  3. P-32

    P-32 Member

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    4.6 grs of Bullseye with a CCI primer is an old Bullseye or (National Match) practice load. If your pistol won't shoot this some thing is wrong.
     
  4. 918v

    918v Member

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    1.200" is a correct OAL for a bullet with a 1R nose profile.
     
  5. cray2751

    cray2751 Member

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    That is what Hodgdon has for that load. None of my other load books has a listed COAL for that powder/bullet combo. You should be gtg. Load some dummy rounds and see what your barrel likes.
     
  6. Steve C

    Steve C Member

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    OAL make the most pressure difference in small case capacity cartridges like the .32 caliber and 9mm. In the .45 ACP its pretty much a non issue as the case is large and pressures are low but it is important for feed and chambering. Set your OAL to chamber in your pistols barrel, compare it with a factory load to match fit. This often takes trial and error to find what works. The OAL listed in the Speer manual is for the profile of their bullet. Bullets of other makes may have different profiles and require a shorter OAL to fit in the chamber properly.

    The 4.7gr load is very light and you run the risk of a load that will not cycle the action briskly enough to function properly. I'd suggest that you test 50 rounds with varying levels of charge to determine the best one to use. Speers maximum is 5.5 grs so if you start at 4.7grs and increase by 0.2grs you can make 10 rounds at each charge level (4.7, 4.9, 5.1, 5.3 and 5.5) and use up one box of cases. Test for function and accuracy and then select the load you will load from then on. Better than just picking a load and hoping that its a good one.
     
  7. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    It's too short for the Missouri bullet he has, despite the fact it is blunter than some. That 1.200 on the Hodgdon website has confused more than one new reloader.
     
  8. 918v

    918v Member

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    Why is it too short?
     
  9. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    Because it is too short.
    Seating the MB 230 at 1.200" would put the ogive down inside the case neck and leave a gap between the case & the bullet ogive.

    You may be correct that 1.200" is right for a 1-radius bullet.

    But 230 grain .45 ACP 1-R bullets are few and far between when you buy cast bullets.

    Some commercial cast bullets, such as Missouri Bullet, use the Magma 45-230 RN BB mold, which is slightly different then a true 230 grain GI bullet.

    Magma mold 45-233-RN-BB is very close to the GI bullet profile, and doesn't have a driving band shoulder.

    Proper OAL for them is going to be just about the same as GI hardball, or 1.266" - 1.271".

    This is the MB 45-230-RN-BB the OP ask about.
    It should be seated to the foreword edge of the driving band.

    Whatever the OAL comes out to be, Is what it is.
    But it won't be 1.200".

    [​IMG]

    rc
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2010
  10. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    Yep.
     
  11. JimGun

    JimGun Member

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    let me show my ignorance one more time. Should I put a taper crimp on a Missouri Bullet .45 RN and should the top of the case cover the grease line but not exceed the band?
     
  12. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    As I said in post #9.
    Seat to the forward sharp edge and leave the round pointy part sticking out.

    Taper crimp to .472" Max - .469" Min case mouth measurement.
    You must taper-crimp to at least straighten out the case mouth bell necessary to get the lead bullets started in the case.

    rc
     
  13. JimGun

    JimGun Member

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    Thanks, RC. I got the round pointy part still visible and I'm heading for the range.
     
  14. MulticalinMO

    MulticalinMO Member

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    I use Missouri Bullet softball! 230 gr. round nose. 5 gr. of Bullseye with a COAL of 1.265. Works great in any .45 I have tried it in, and it feeds just as well as ball ammo. Just enough crimp to take the bell out so as to not work the brass too much. Don't know how many times they can be reloaded, but it is a LOT!

    Skip in Kingsville
     
  15. ir3e971

    ir3e971 Member

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    I have been seating my MBC LRN at 1.240. Perhaps I need to re-examine that and adjust out further.

    Seemse to work well with Unique, Bullseye, and Titegroup.
     
  16. earplug

    earplug Member

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    1 Radius bullets

    I have to seat my Lee mold cast bullets deeper then some manuals spec for equal bullet weight, due to the bullet engaging the rifling ahead of the chamber.
    Then they don't allow the barrel and slide to lock up.
    I have found some other lead bullets have the same problem.
    I yank the barrel out of my 1911 and do some chamber checking with new reloads. If they don't fit, I keep seating them deeper until they chamber.
    Deeper seating will increase pressure for the same charge weight.
     
  17. loadedround

    loadedround Member

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    I put a very slight taper crimp on all my 45 ACP loads.
     
  18. 918v

    918v Member

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    See post #19.

    The reason Hodgdon lists an OAL of 1.200" is due to the various profiles available and 1.200" is the lowest common denominator. Their data indicates a particular velocity and pressure at the lowest practical OAL for the 230gr bullet weight in the 45 ACP. It is hardly confusing.

    I liked RC's explanation.
     
  19. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    I liked rc's explanation as well. As usual he was quite clear and correct, but that 1.200 has confused more than one person, and it is too short for that Missouri bullet. It is not a 1R bullet. AC
     
  20. 918v

    918v Member

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    Like I said before, the 1.200" OAL is the lowest practical seating depth for the 230gr weight- 1R RN, TC, etc. A reasonable person looking at the data knows he is safe as long as the OAL remains 1.200" or higher. That's not confusing, but does require a bit of research prior to use, as does reloading in general. You should never blindly slap together anything.

    Another example: Sierra data shows their 125gr FMJ RN loaded to 1.090" OAL. But wait a minute! Aren't those loaded to 1.150"+ ususlly??? Is Sierra trying to purposefully confuse the reloader? On purpose? With malice aforethought?

    I don't think so.
     
  21. JimGun

    JimGun Member

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    Back from the range, using 5.2 grs of Universal with the MBC 230 L-RN, COL of 1.265 I had an average of 720 fps on twenty round, which I am very pleased with. Now, I also bought a Lewis Lead Remover when I bought my MBC. How many times should I run the brass screen through the barrel? Do any of you also use a solvent?
    Thanks for any info.
    Jim
     
  22. floydster

    floydster Member

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    I don't use my Lewis lead remover anymore, I cut a piece from a Chore Boy"all copper' pad and rap it around a brass brush, I run this thru the bore dry and it takes the lead out in an amazing hurry.
    Been doing this many years in all my pistols I shoot lead in.

    Works great for me.

    Floydster
     
  23. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    The LLR is only needed if the barrel is heavily leaded in the rifling grooves.

    Not required for normal cleaning every time you shoot lead bullets.

    Your gun will probably shoot better if you leave the slight film of lead & bullet lube in there. Every time you clean it out, you have to re-foul it again before cast bullets will shoot most accurately.

    rc
     
  24. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    When people post here, confused by the 1.200 O.A.L., then it must be somewhat confusing. That is what I based my opinion on. People posting here wondering why 1.200 when most of what they see is a good deal longer for RN bullets. Simple enough.
     
  25. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    I agree.
    It is confusing.

    Most new reloaders, and a majority of old experianced ones, expect the listed OAL in the manual to be what you are supposed to use with that bullet.

    Not the minimum that you could ever use with a goofy 1-R bullet nobody sells.

    rc
     
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