theboyscout
Member
Are they different?
Diff with bearman and bond arms
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theboyscout
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Well i bought a derringer today and i find the trigger is ridiculous to shoot. Upon further look i see this is a bear man from UT and bond arms is from texas. So im asking if they are competitors
Cump
Member
I think it is a rebranding of cobra. I've had a couple cobras I bought for about 100. They went bang, had horrible triggers and weren't drop safe. Bond is in a different category.
As Cump stated, the Bearman appears to be made by Cobra.
I just watched a video and it was not favorable at all. I have not held one before, so it would be unfair to give my opinion.
I can tell you that the Bond is built like a tank! I have three with multiple barrels.
There is a reason that Bond dominates at all of the Cowboy Action Matches.
Bearman vvvvv
Bonds vvvvvv
I just watched a video and it was not favorable at all. I have not held one before, so it would be unfair to give my opinion.
I can tell you that the Bond is built like a tank! I have three with multiple barrels.
There is a reason that Bond dominates at all of the Cowboy Action Matches.
Bearman vvvvv
Bonds vvvvvv
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WisBorn
Contributing Member
I have a Bond Arms Rowdy 45/410. I will confess that it is not easy to shoot. It is a up close and personal choice. This handgun is well made and a great backup tool. With the 410 it is great medicine for snakes both the slithering kind and 2 legged ones.
i’ve only shot a bond arms when it comes to derringers. they are built like a brick outhouse. i like the original, gen2 (indented trigger, wider hammer spur, improved action), models, certainly not the cheaper roughneck/rowdy models. the latter are less finished and it shows, mine locked up after shooting and wouldn’t accept other barrels. i sent it back to b.a. at my expense, where it was supposedly fixed, and i sold it. look for used original gen2 models to buy as they are never likely to be worn out. “4” calibers need the large rubber grips. the removable trigger guard works well with gloved hands in cold weather. with different barrels they are perfect for ammo scrounging during ammo droughts.
WARNING- make sure the hammer is not down when closing the barrels. On the older Davis / Cobra models the hammer rests against the firing pin causing it to stick out so when you close the barrels the firing pin strikes the primer of the loaded rounds.
Pat Riot
Contributing Member
What t1210 said ^^^^
I have a Davis derringer. If I fire the bottom barrel last the top firing pin sticks out EVEN if I halfcock it, engage the safety then let the hammer rest against the safety.
SAFETY ENGAGED HAMMER DOWN
SAFETY DISENGAGED HAMMER DOWN
You can see the silver Safety plunger just beneath my thumb.
Be careful!
By the way, my Davis sits in the safe and is never used. I used to shoot it years ago but to me it’s an unsafe gun with an atrocious trigger. It probably last less than 50 rounds of .38 Special through it.
high country
Member
I am curious about this because I have had an itch for a Bond derringer for a while. I figured on getting one of the roughneck series at some point as a less expensive entry, and could add a nicer one if I like it and start adding extra barrels etc. If I end up not caring for it I could probably sell it without taking too much of a hit. Hate to end up with a $500 derringer that no one wants to buy from me, $300 is a lot easier to swallow.
Do you feel like Bond made it right? Curious if you shot it to confirm whether the issue you had was fixed, or tried other barrels. They claim the barrels swap no problem, but if that is hit/miss the rough series become way less interesting.
TTv2
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The difference is the Bond will last 100 years no matter what, the Cobra/Bearman will last depending on what caliber you're shooting and how much. Both triggers are terrible, the Bearman much more so, both will not be all that accurate, but the Bond will shoot to POA better. They are both point and shoot guns, no derringer is meant to be carefully aimed beyond a rudimentary attempt.
After that, the price is $500 for a Bond and maybe $125 for the Bearman. If you're looking to shoot anything 9mm or .38 or larger and don't intend to carry it much, go with the Bond as the heft and grip shape is going to keep the recoil down. If you're looking to actually carry this then the Bearman is a much smaller, lighter derringer and I'd suggest shooting .22 or .32 as the recoil with .38 and 9mm is not going to be pleasant.
Only other thing I can say is don't dry fire the Bearman/Cobra derringer without snap caps.
After that, the price is $500 for a Bond and maybe $125 for the Bearman. If you're looking to shoot anything 9mm or .38 or larger and don't intend to carry it much, go with the Bond as the heft and grip shape is going to keep the recoil down. If you're looking to actually carry this then the Bearman is a much smaller, lighter derringer and I'd suggest shooting .22 or .32 as the recoil with .38 and 9mm is not going to be pleasant.
Only other thing I can say is don't dry fire the Bearman/Cobra derringer without snap caps.
short answer, no.
i have 3 b.a. original gen2 derringers, one came cheap on-sale new in 45lc only, the other two were gently used (built strong and generally shot little). i have 410, 45lc, 45acp, 357/38, 9mm, 380acp, 327/32 and 22lr barrels. these are fine and fun, my expensive post retirement indulgence.
at first my 357/38 roughneck accepted no other barrels and locked up after shooting (i had to pry open barrel release lever). b.a. was reluctant to accept it as a warranty repair, which was a shocker. after a 40 minute phonecon i finally got a return authorization at my expense. after b.a. finished it no longer locked up but would only accept 1-2 other barrels. i sold it on consignment at a lgs with full disclosure including b.a.’s repair document.
to accept other non-mated parts doesn’t an implement need a higher level of standard finishing? if so, then the whole premise of a lesser finished rowdy/roughneck is wrong. imho, b.a. tanked its hard won reputation as a niche, high quality, firearms maker with these purposely less finished models to chase more sales revenue.
i got my b.a. derringers and barrels from online stores and gb.com all for close to $350. spend $100 more than for a rowdy/roughneck, you won’t regret doing so! just find an inexpensive original gen2 with any barrel and add your favorite calibers. “4” calibers need large rubber grips.
high country
Member
Wow, that is definitely not a good customer service experience, and out of keeping with what I would have expected from them. It does make some sense that less time in finishing/qc would lead to some of the types of issues you had though.
Thanks for sharing. You aren't wrong, once you are already spending the money on a rough series, it isn't that far of a jump to the nicer ones and they are sooooo purdy. I have had an itch for one for quite a while, but it is such a niche gun I haven't made the plunge. I figure I will just keep my eyes out and when a decent used example crosses my path I will snatch it up. Unless someone used it as a hammer, it doesn't seem like much you could do to hurt one that wouldn't also break your hand. Thanks again for sharing your experience.
you are most welcome! my ownership shows that i certainly don’t hate b.a. derringers, but my rowdy/roughneck experience left a lingering sour taste. b.a. never replied to my followup email, sad to say.
do look at gunbroker for a gently used, original gen2. barrels are non ffl items and can be found on gb and ebay, as well as by an internet search. having swappable barrels means ammo scrounging is easier; my most recent barrel addition was 327/32 when i found alot of overlooked 32long ammo at a decent price in my lgs. i got hooked on b.a. derringers during the obama ammo drought. i brought one with several barrels when i was driving on many long road trips. they are fun plinkers that slow down one’s ammo burn rate. once i figured out the sight picture i get soda can accuracy at 20 feet. the removable trigger guard makes for a handy ccw when wearing gloves. i enjoy shooting 45lc, 9mm, 38sp, 380acp, 32long, with 22lr feeling like a bb pistol. i don’t like the feel of 45acp, any magnum rounds and non handgun specific 410. be warned, after you buy your first b.a. derringer, adding barrels is like eating m&m candy.
Autodidactic
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I have a Bond Arms Roughneck, which is basically a Rowdy. It came with a 9 mm 2.5 inch, and I also bought a 3 inch .357/.38 barrel for it. It's a bit hot with 9 mm, but manageable. With .357 it is too much, brutal. However, with normal .38 loads it's quite nice. The Bond Arms weighs more than many .38 revolvers. Honestly, I think it's a lot to put anything above a 9 mm or .38 in such a handgun due to size and hard to grip. The thing shoots like a dream with .38 wadcutters or other lower powered rounds. I think if I carry it the smart way is to use basic wadcutters. Will be sufficient.
Autodidactic
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I wouldn't mind a .22 LR Cobra/Bearman/Davis, because I want a .22 derringer and Bond Arms doesn't even make the .22 LR anymore. They are going used on Ebay for literally like $500 just for the barrel. My main issue with the cheap derringers is not the material or accuracy, etc, but the safety issue including with drop safe or hammer on round.
Autodidactic
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With respect, I have a Roughneck. It has accepted replacement, standard non-roughneck barrels without problem. No misfires, completely reliable. It just doesn't have the polished steel on the frame, as advertised.
im happy for you autodidactic. as i see it when one builds a product to a single, consistently high, well fitted standard then parts become reliably interchangeable. when that same product is intentionally allowed to leave the production line at some lesser standard that is just “good enough” then the likelihood diminishes of parts being fully interchangeable.
i get that some folks have had fine luck with b.a.’s rough/rowdy versions, but “luck” isn’t what i sought when i got mine. b.a. built a well deserved, hard won reputation for an excellent product, in contrast to other derringer makers, with its well finished, albeit pricey, original derringers. chasing increased market share and sales revenues with a cheapened, ill fitted, lesser finished product was a deliberate business decision. i wouldn’t have made that decision but im not a firearms maker.
cheers.
Glockorama
Member
I have a BA Patriot in 410.45LC that I've had for awhile and a buddy has a Snake Slayer in same. I just recently got a Roughneck in 45ACP and I must say, with the exception of the frame finish, the built quality is the same. At least to my eyes. The difference, according to Bond Arms, is just the finishing process, the overall manufacturing for all guns is the same. Mileage my vary I suppose, but the newer "budget" models seem good to go to me.
Now the USE of a derringer for defense is a different conversation....
Now the USE of a derringer for defense is a different conversation....
Autodidactic
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Right, they just don't finish the steel as much as the nicer Bond Arms. The action is the same. The barrels are largely the same. For example, I now have a non-Roughneck .357/.38 barrel for it that is identical to the ones put on the finished frames. I've never had a misfire or issue, out of probably 250 rounds out of mine which is more than probably 90% of people ever fire out of one lol. It's built like a tank, which is good and bad.
The steel mass and size of the BA makes them manageable with hot rounds/calibersthat in lighter guns and derringers will be less manageable, but also make them heavier for carry.
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