Differences in SA and FA for Ak-47's?

For educational/safety purposes only, can anyone tell me what makes an AK-47 full auto or semi auto by explaining which parts dictate the fire control and how they work?

I can see how this may be viewed as a 'taboo' subject and a possible liability so if it's not allowed, I apologize and understand if it gets locked down, just trying to learn more.

 

There's a sear located in the FCG that holds the hammer back until the bolt is locked up enough that it's safe to fire, at which point the sear releases the hammer and it flies forward to fire the rifle, repeating this process until the trigger is released. I don't know the specifics, as I've never really studied the AK FCG.

 

Yep. That is pretty much how they all work. Closed bolts anyway.

 

that would make sense. On my semi-auto there's the part that holds the hammer until the trigger is released and pulled again, but if that wasn't there the timing for hammer release would be off so I know a full-auto couldn't simply not have that part. If it was removed, it'd be unreliable and unsafe.

I've read something about a 'lobe' on the bolt carrier that trips the sear, but again, it'd still require a full auto FCG with 'rate reducer'(I'm guessing that's what that is, it keeps the hammer locked back until the bolt/carrier is in proper position and then something pushes it out of the way?) and so on.

I'd also like to add that installing these parts without proper licensure/permits is very very illegal so don't do it, please.

 

There is also a third pin in the receiver that accommodates the different parts used in a full auto version versus the semi auto version. When I say pin I mean like the pin that the trigger sits on, its a pin that passes through the trigger and rests on each side of the receiver.

If you do some searching on full auto AK you can find a picture that will show the third pin.

I don't know for sure, but I do not think there are any legal full auto AK's. Can someone confirm?

 

There do exist a few registered FA AK-47s, but no models more recent than that unless you count the couple of registered AK-22s (a .22lr trainer). Not many though.

 

A quick Google search will show you all you ever wanted to know about Full Auto AK's.

 

Pretty much been covered. The hole fof the auto sear has to drilled in the exact place to ensure correct timing and there's a cut in the rail for clearance.

 

There's actually a rather large amount of them, or relatively large considering how many guns are on the registry in total. A lot of them are the older style AKMs but there's been a trend lately to use the recievers in Krinkov builds, which are a whole lot of fun.

 

This Sov AK Armorer's manual shows all the parts and how they work together for semi and auto fire: https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B09fZpC9S7gDMmYyMGI2Y2MtMzQ3MC00MDU3LTk0Y2ItYjBlZTNiNDc5NWE0&authkey=CLT79qIH

The manual is older so it does not describe the rate reducer mechanism that was introduced with the AKM.

BSW

 

The closest thing to a military AK one can get nowadays are WASR 10/63's (ones that are imported from Romania fully built and only lightly modified by Century). They come on milspec receivers with the location of the third hole indented but not drilled through. It would be highly illegal to drill it through unless you're a properly licensed FFL, but the location is already marked on both sides of the receiver.

There's 2 main aspects that separate a military AK from a purely civilian AK. One is the fire control group (which necessitates the 3rd hole in the receiver), and the other is the bolt carrier. The bolt carrier on a military AK has a hook that causes the rifle to fire again once the bolt has fully locked up. Note that military bolt carriers are fully legal to own and install, and frequently come on WASR's as well, since they use a mix of surplus and new parts.

Now, assuming you aren't really just asking "for educational" purposes, there is ONE legal way to get a full-auto equivalency in an AK: the Slide Fire Solutions SSAK-47 bumpfire stock. It allows for controllable bumpfiring from the shoulder, and the ATF has deemed it legal. It also has a means of locking it to disable the bumpfire ability.

 

Thanks for the good replies.

No, I do not want a full auto AK-47. I don't even like getting attention from my regular guns at the range; I cringe at what'd happen if I went hot on full auto fire, especially around here. The ranges here, are loaded with LEO's and there's no way I'd ever get to use it without being bombarded with questions/spectators, and a 'where's your tax stamp' is certain to be included at some point.



Now, having said that, I was just curious what makes the difference in a semi-auto sear and a full auto sear.

If I were to have a full auto AK, I'd want a suppressed SBR Krinkov with selective fire; 3-shot burst/semi which I think is not completely doable.

 

The 3-shot burst ability is not possible with a standard AK fire control group. However, Izhmash has recently released a new version of the AK, the AK-12, that has this capability, in addition to a number of other spectacular improvements such as a bolt hold open, push button magazine release while retaining the old lever release, railed gas block, and more.

 

There is a guy on the AR-15.com AK forum who just bought a couple of registered FA receivers as well as some AK parts kits from rguns.com and he plans to merge them into a AKS-74U and a regular AK-74.

He must of won the lottery or something. :banghead:

 

That sounds pretty cool, but I wouldn't want an auto shotgun aside from SEMI-auto.

I assume it's a shotgun since that's the company that makes the Saiga 12ga and it's go 12 in the name.

I been looking inside my WASR-10 a lot recently and have noticed just how determined Century was to de-militarize that sucker.

Guide rail with auto-sear notch has been ground down to remove the notch along with the part on the bolt carrier being utterly buggered up beyond fixing IF it was so desired and permitted.

I gotta get you guys some pics of this. I used to think they just did a sloppy job of putting it together before I learned it was an actual Romanian receiver, and then I thought the Romanians must've been some crappy machinists.. but sure enough it's got some gouges that I'm guessing were made to prevent FA work and some of them are pretty fugly. It'd be hard to correct even if I wanted to.. the bayonet lug was also ground off, and coincidentaly, is the smoothest work they did to it.

 

Pretty much. He only paid 9k for the both of them. Some people have all the luck....

Depends on the style of AK you're talking about. WASR 10/63s are AKM pattern rifles which were mostly replaced in the '70s. Although it's possible the Romanians are still using them. The Russians are currently using AK-74Ms. The closest you can get to those would be an Arsenal SGL31-94.

 

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the safety. If I'm not mistaken, there needs to be a ledge on your safety lever to hold the long "tail" on the disconnector. I mean auto sears are fine and dandy and the lobe on your bolt can trip the sear all day long, but if nothing is keeping that pesky little disconnectoe out of the op, its gonna do what it was designed to. Am I correct when I say the SA safety lever does not have the ledge to hold the tail on the disconnector?

ETA - to ANYBODY considering doing this on the DL - I know it is tempting, I know it feels like its your rifle and you right. Honestly, I agree with you, BUT in addition to the standard warnings of prison let me offer u a more common and also negative outcome. You end up with a rifle that you cant use. Sure, its FA, but you cant tell anyone about. You can only shoot it in certain off the grid locations and you'll be nervousness while travelling to and from them. I believe most people who are tempted to illegally convert a gun have never fired a FA before because if they had, they would know the fun of FA nowhere near makes up for the nerve wrecking stress of owning an illegal gun. Basically you ruin all the fun aspects of owning a semi auto AK for almost no return. Plus, u can get into a FA (different platform) for around 3-4K

 

Good point zignal zero, I hope everyone reading this keeps the negative consequences in mind.

While I do not advocate the restriction of knowledge or the restriction of freedom/liberties, please understand, everyone, that unfortunately, doing the things mentioned here can and will get you put in federal bang-me-in-the-crack prison for a very long time. So if anyone is considering doing soemthing currently illegal, please do not. Just learn it, and take the proper step neccesary to have certain legislation reversed so that we can legally own these types of weapons again without ridiculous price tags and bogus tax stamps, whereas converting a semi-auto weapon to full auto without proper permits and documentation is the WRONG way and will only serve anti-rights activists agenda to have you put in prison and further restrict the rights of others.

Just don't don't do it.

And yes, you are correct, the selector lever should have a broader tab than the semi-auto has.

 

I don't know if I would say large amount. Certainly not when compared to M16s and M11/9s. They cost $14,000 compared to $10,000 for a full-auto AR because of scarcity. There are probably less than 100 real AKs out there. I would also guess that there aren't more than a few thousand conversions out there.

 

when you say 'out there' do you mean in the US or world-wide?

I'd think there would be quite a few around the world. Maybe not the US, but around the world, a lot.

 

I mean legally transferable in the US. There are probably more than 50 million full-auto AKs in the world. All but a few thousand will get you 10 years in PMITA Federal prison without the possibility of parole. You will pay an average of $14,000 for a legally converted AK. The sky's the limit for an original, all are pre-1968. I have seen up to $90,000.

 

What's the average cost to have one converted from semi?

 

From a parts and labor perspective, very cheap. Couple hundred bucks at most if you needed all new parts and for the machining.

The problem is that unless you are special, such as law enforcement, there is no way to do this legally in the US. You would need to spend the money on a transferable, registered receiver. Those don't (usually) come cheap.

 

In all seriousness where are you finding those? I spend quite a bit of time looking around shops/internet sites that sell full autos and I've occasionally seen FA ARs in the 13k range but average price seems to be much closer to 17-20k at the moment. For 10k I'd be really interested.

 

It's called an AK-12 because it came out in 2012, not because of a caliber, much like the AK-47.