Dirty or over pressure?

[Mr_Flintstone]

I recently made up a batch of 357 magnum with IMR 4227 and 140 gr XTP. I shot some of them out of my Henry 38/357 and they functioned perfectly. Then I shot some out of my S&W Model 19, and I started having problems ejecting the spent cartridge cases. My first thought was that I had made them a little too stout, but I didn't notice any other pressure signs, and the more I shot the worse it got.

Is 4227 dirty enough that it will cause the cases to stick in the cylinder of my 4" Model 19?

 

[ReloaderFred]

Have you by any chance been shooting .38 Specials through your Model 19? If so, there will be a carbon buildup just ahead of where the .38 case ends, which binds up .357 Magnum cases, or in some instances, prevents them from chambering at all.

Just a thought.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

I've shot a few through it, but I always clean it with Hoppes #9 and a brass brush. Maybe I didn't clean it good enough the last time.

 

[Slamfire]

K frame revolvers have thinner cylinders than N frame, and it is known that occasionally 357 Magnum loads will cause sticky extraction in K frame revolvers but not in N frame revolvers and it is all due to the difference in cylinder stretch. Thinner cylinders stretch more and therefore retract more after the pressure is gone.

That could be your problem. Cut your loads until your rounds extract without issue from your revolver.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

You didn't tell us what charge of 4227 you used. I'm not a fan of 4227 in the .357 Magnum but I'm not sure it's the powder giving you a problem.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

You didn't tell us what charge of 4227 you used. I'm not a fan of 4227 in the .357 Magnum but I'm not sure it's the powder giving you a problem.

Sorry, it was 17.2 grains of IMR 4227. Hodgdon shows the max for this load at 18 grains.

It could very well have been some kind of buildup. When I cleaned it today it seemed really dirty. It took a ton of alternating Hoppes and a brush in the cylinders to finally get a clean patch.

 

[Captcurt]

I have had better luck with H110 with the 140 gr. 4227 works better with the heavier bullets. Have also had good luck with 2400 and AA#9.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Sorry, it was 17.2 grains of IMR 4227. Hodgdon shows the max for this load at 18 grains.

It could very well have been some kind of buildup. When I cleaned it today it seemed really dirty. It took a ton of alternating Hoppes and a brush in the cylinders to finally get a clean patch.

DO NOT fire any more of those rounds in your M19 if you like that revolver.
You need to be very careful when reading load data. Hodgdon lists 18.0gr of H4227 under that 140gr bullet but only 13.0gr IMR4227 under the same bullet. Things are a little muddy with those 2 powders but that is a very wide difference. As you suspected you are probably over pressure.

 

[murf]

you should really use the hornady reloading manual when loading xtp bullets. the bullet shank is long and typically uses less powder than other (e.g. gold dot) similar bullets.

the hornady manual shows 16.1 grains of imr 4227 as max for your bullet. i would pull the bullets on those loads and start again.

luck,

murf

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

DO NOT fire any more of those rounds in your M19 if you like that revolver.
You need to be very careful when reading load data. Hodgdon lists 18.0gr of H4227 under that 140gr bullet but only 13.0gr IMR4227 under the same bullet. Things are a little muddy with those 2 powders but that is a very wide difference. As you suspected you are probably over pressure.

It's probably a moot point as they are all gone now, and I've decided to only use 4227 as carbine powder from now on. As to being muddy, you're right. IMR 4227 and H4227 have apparently changed formulas more than once. I contacted Hodgdon before loading these, and they said that the New IMR 4227 was the same as the previous H4227, and that H4227 is no longer produced. Add to that the fact that apparently the US and Australian 4227 formulations were different as well. They did qualify their statement with "always start low, and work up"; which is what I've been doing the past few weeks. I never did see any pressure signs.

In either case, it's much too dirty for use in any 4 inch pistol. It will probably be relegated to .30 carbine powder from now on (which ironically lists the same charge for IMR 4227 and H4227) until it's used up.