Disappointed in Nosler

[dranrab]

In another thread I mentioned that I bought a new Nosler Liberty that had to go back to the factory. There were 3 issues. The bolt was extraordinarily hard to close on Nosler factory 105 grain ammo. The best 3 shot group I could muster at 100 yards was about 5 inches. The bullets showed pronounced keyholing.

Nosler factory 105 ammo is all I shot. Here are targets that reflect the keyholing and accuracy.





I understand that it happens from time to time that a bad one gets out of the factory. I should know, since the last 3 $1000+ rifles I have bought have had to go back. When I contacted Nosler, I was able to get through to CS quickly with a phone call. I was issued a return authorization. In the e-mail from Daniel Michels that accompanied the RA, it was noted that I would be called when the rifle arrived. "Once the rifle is received, we will either call or email you to verify."

I immediately shipped the gun back.

Tracking showed that it arrived on Sep 2.

As of September 18, I had not heard anything from Nosler. I emailed and got this response back from Daniel: "My apologies that you were not informed. I confirmed with our gunsmith and yes, he has received your rifle. He unfortunately has not yet had an opportunity to evaluate the barrel twist, but is hoping to have an update ready next week. At that point, we should have a better idea on turnaround time as we will know the exact issue."

On September 29, I emailed Daniel asking for an update.

As of today, Oct 5, I had not received a response to the September 29 email question, so I emailed again and have not yet heard back.

If I had been told from the onset that repairs would take 6-8 weeks, I wouldn't be happy with that turnaround time, but I wouldn't have expected to hear anything back either. Remington advised me right up front that repairs would take up to 12 weeks and that's how long it took to get my 5R HS Precision 223 back. My Christensen Arms Mesa was back to me in less than 3 weeks from the date I shipped it.

Am I justified in my disappointment and frustration, or are we just at a point with crappy US manufacturing and customer service that we should expect this even on a higher end product?

 

[daniel craig]

are we just at a point with crappy US manufacturing and customer service that we should expect this even on a higher end product?

I never understood what so many people feel that US manufacturing is inherently better. Most is on par or worse than overseas manufacturing.

As for Nosler, I have no personal experience with them but it sounds like you may have gotten a dud.

 

[Riomouse911]

My new-to-me S&W Model 48-3 was bought in Nov 2019 off GB.

It felt a bit like the trigger pull was stiff when cycled the first time I fired it in December. I marked that up to unfamiliarity with this .22 Mag S&W and the history of Rimfires having heavier then expected trigger pulls due to ingition concerns.

It ultimately had light strikes and completely locked up the second time I fired it at the end of Feb. I’ve fired less than a 50-round box through it total.

In March S&W said they wouldn’t be accepting returns until June.

In June I called two weeks in a row until I was given a RA and sent it in.

Last week (Sept.26th) I got the letter from S&W outlining the issues and asking for pre-.payment before work starts.

It’ll be almost a year since I bought the gun before I get to actually shoot it again.

With the virus shutting down or limiting people coming to work since March, and extending into the foreseeable future, it’s nothing out of the ordinary. You should expect there will be delays in service or shipping no matter what Industry you’re dealing with.

As disappointing as it is that a new gun is shooting like a slingshot, at least your gun got in to be looked at. Word in some circles now is many companies aren’t taking new repairs in until their current backlog is addressed with the limited staff they have on hand.

Good luck, I hope it comes back shooting well for you.

Stay safe.

 

[Cannibul]

If I had been told from the onset that repairs would take 6-8 weeks, I wouldn't be happy with that turnaround time, but I wouldn't have expected to hear anything back either. Remington advised me right up front that repairs would take up to 12 weeks and that's how long it took to get my 5R HS Precision 223 back. My Christensen Arms Mesa was back to me in less than 3 weeks from the date I shipped it.

Am I justified in my disappointment and frustration, or are we just at a point with crappy US manufacturing and customer service that we should expect this even on a higher end product?

When did you send your Christensen back?

Have you picked up a newspaper or watched the news in the past six months?

BTW, you've had to send three rifles back? I've only ever sent one firearm back in over 40 years of ownership and over 100 firearms passing through my hands.

 

[dranrab]

When did you send your Christensen back?

Have you picked up a newspaper or watched the news in the past six months?

BTW, you've had to send three rifles back? I've only ever sent one firearm back in over 40 years of ownership and over 100 firearms passing through my hands.

August of 20.

Yes.

Five total. Three in the past 6 months.

You don't want me near you when you are playing bingo.

 

[Barbaroja]

If all five were from Nosler I’d then have to ask you why do you keep buying them?

 

[jmorris]

Am I justified in my disappointment and frustration

If a manufacturers rifle can’t make a round hole on a target, with ammunition they also manufacture (assuming it’s the correct caliber for the firearm), I think you are completely justified being disappointed.

One can be a crummy shot or have junk sighting systems but the bullet still won’t hit the target sideways down range. Can’t blame that on the shooter.

 

[horsemen61]

Yeah OP I’d be pretty miffed about that

I hope it all works out in your favor!

 

[SwampWolf]

As I opined on that other thread on a different site, communication is everything in fostering a good relationship with the customer. Answering inquiries promptly, be it via e-mail, telephone or otherwise, goes a very long way in keeping a customer around for later business.

 

[dranrab]

As I opined on that other thread on a different site, communication is everything in fostering a good relationship with the customer. Answering inquiries promptly, be it via e-mail, telephone or otherwise, goes a very long way in keeping a customer around for later business.

When I recently made a large powder and primer order from Midsouth, they had a note on their login page that advised of long ship times. I knew that going in. 23 days later my order shipped. I knew that it was going to take a long time going in, so no big deal.

When Nosler's first email said they'd let me know when they got the rifle, that was my expectation. When the second email implied they'd let me know when they figured out the problem, that is what I expected them to do. I also expected them to deliver a rifle in serviceable condition. Right now they are 0-3 in delivering on my expectations. If they disappoint me one more time I am swearing off all things Nosler.

 

[DustyGmt]

Right now they are 0-3 in delivering on my expectations. If they disappoint me one more time I am swearing off all things Nosler.

That's fair. I think customer service across the board is pretty awful. I can recall too many times I've been disappointed as a customer and got no satisfaction with an inquiry, not just gun stuff, like I said, across the board. It seems in alot of cases the customer couldnt matter less. It's not what it used to be, businesses would trip and fall all over themselves to save a customer back in the day. That's why I take a shine to companies who have really good CS, even though it should be a given, it's not
So good customer support goes a long way with me.

 

[Hartkopf]

are we just at a point with crappy US manufacturing and customer service that we should expect this even on a higher end product?

It looks like you are justified in your gripe in this situation. But, this last statement is totally not fair to the millions of American manufactured products that are flawless. Unfortunately there's not enough products made here and there isn't enough incentive to attract young people into the sector.

There are duds and stinkers from all around the world that deserve much ridicule. IMO, America is in the top 80% in manufacturing quality.

For example, I have spent years using German made grinders in manufacturing. Some of the machines broke down so much that it was impossible to make money. This manufacture put out a crappy product and was holier than thou when the customer didn't just accept the crappy results.

Another is a well known German luxury car manufacturer. I owned two of these cars a few years back and you would not believe the ridiculous repair cost and the number of repairs needed per year. I knew the dealership extremely well because I was there all the time. I sold the cars early at a huge loss, which probably saved me money because they were both in death spirals before they were five years old. I've owned many American made cars that went 7 years with almost no repairs.

American gun manufactures in general are pretty impressive being able to sell quality guns as a whole in such a competitive market. Some are better than others but Ruger, Mossberg and Marlin(recently built) have never let me down. American made Glocks have been great(not American design though).

No country puts out 100% perfect quality. American made products are way better than most people realize.

(I work in manufacturing and am a bit proud of my quality control)

 

[dranrab]

American gun manufactures in general are pretty impressive being able to sell quality guns as a whole in such a competitive market. Some are better than others but Ruger, Mossberg and Marlin(recently built) have never let me down. American made Glocks have been great(not American design though).

No country puts out 100% perfect quality. American made products are way better than most people realize.

(I work in manufacturing and am a bit proud of my quality control)

I have sworn off Ruger. I have had to send 2 back to Ruger, 1 defective rifle I caught at my FFL, so it went back to the seller, two wouldn't function out of the box that I made right and several others with quality issues. Used to be that Ruger was stone cold reliable but lacking in accuracy. Today they seem to be more accurate, but final QC is performed by the customer.

I have no idea what kind of QC goes into a rifle. I'd be surprised if there is any QC performed after they roll off the assembly line. It is evident that a basic function check isn't being done.

 

[buck460XVR]

If you read Nosler's web page about the Liberty, it's the greatest gun since the birth of John Browning. Backlog may very well be guns were introduced before they were tested to be tried and true. Still, Nosler is a reputable company, I'm sure they will make good.

 

[Hartkopf]

I have had to send 2 back to Ruger

How many total guns have you sent back to the manufactures? I believe you've listed 5 so far in this thread. Is there more?

edit: ok I see you said 5 total.

 

[JFrank]

Nosler May have a hundred clunkers sitting in the repair rack, hell who knows.
This is just my opinion so please don’t flame me......VVV
One thing I noticed is that you’re counting calendar days 9/2-9-18 slightly over two work weeks then you e mailed again slightly over one work week. I think a good manager will manage a customer’s expectations and in this case perhaps that’s hasn’t happened as well as he could but in the same breath you’ll need to manage your own.
Hopefully you’ll hear back in a couple weeks or less.
Shoot Small
J

 

[Ivy Mike]

It looks like you are justified in your gripe in this situation. But, this last statement is totally not fair to the millions of American manufactured products that are flawless. Unfortunately there's not enough products made here and there isn't enough incentive to attract young people into the sector.

There are duds and stinkers from all around the world that deserve much ridicule. IMO, America is in the top 80% in manufacturing quality.

For example, I have spent years using German made grinders in manufacturing. Some of the machines broke down so much that it was impossible to make money. This manufacture put out a crappy product and was holier than thou when the customer didn't just accept the crappy results.

Another is a well known German luxury car manufacturer. I owned two of these cars a few years back and you would not believe the ridiculous repair cost and the number of repairs needed per year. I knew the dealership extremely well because I was there all the time. I sold the cars early at a huge loss, which probably saved me money because they were both in death spirals before they were five years old. I've owned many American made cars that went 7 years with almost no repairs.

American gun manufactures in general are pretty impressive being able to sell quality guns as a whole in such a competitive market. Some are better than others but Ruger, Mossberg and Marlin(recently built) have never let me down. American made Glocks have been great(not American design though).

No country puts out 100% perfect quality. American made products are way better than most people realize.

(I work in manufacturing and am a bit proud of my quality control)

Metabo-ned.

Give me an old rat tail Makita.

 

[dranrab]

I think a good manager will manage a customer’s expectations and in this case perhaps that’s hasn’t happened as well as he could but in the same breath you’ll need to manage your own.
Hopefully you’ll hear back in a couple weeks or less.
Shoot Small
J

I am admittedly caught in between expecting them to communicate as they said they would and expecting them to do as well with take two on the rifle as they did with take one.

 

[Poper]

That's fair. I think customer service across the board is pretty awful. I can recall too many times I've been disappointed as a customer and got no satisfaction with an inquiry, not just gun stuff, like I said, across the board. It seems in alot of cases the customer couldnt matter less. It's not what it used to be, businesses would trip and fall all over themselves to save a customer back in the day. That's why I take a shine to companies who have really good CS, even though it should be a given, it's not
So good customer support goes a long way with me.

Yes, the good ole days of stellar CS are pretty much gone. There are bright spots in the nighttime and they are welcome for sure. Still, it appears when a company wants to get a competitive edge in pricing, the first thing they do is eliminate (or greatly reduce) customer service. I guess CS is easy pickin's for the bean counters.
I have done most of my own auto repair since the 1970's because it was my AFSC and it was a real money saver in the days of extremely limited income. There is a very well known internet parts supplier that is very competitive in price but has absolutely NO customer service. I bought from them once but will never again, because in order to get the credit they gave for defective parts, I had to go to my credit card company. Thank fully, the cc company made it right. Once burned was enough for me.

Unfortunately, it appears such attitudes is the norm these days and CS from such vendors as Dillon and RCBS seems to be very rare, indeed.

 

[Cannibul]

I'd rather a company have people repairing products than emailing customers.

 

[Poper]

I'd rather a company have people repairing products than emailing customers.

I would prefer they do both. Fix 'em and communicate!

 

[rbernie]

With the virus shutting down or limiting people coming to work since March, and extending into the foreseeable future, it’s nothing out of the ordinary. You should expect there will be delays in service or shipping no matter what Industry you’re dealing with.

This is a very real thing.

I would prefer they do both. Fix 'em and communicate!

Agreed, but if they didn't already have a way for Customer Service employees to work remotely (email, access to RMA data, access to production scheduling / shop order system, and so forth) before COVID19 - they're well and truly snowed right about now.

 

[dranrab]

Do you reckon the two are mutually exclusive, or might the Gunsmith do gunsmithing and the CS person do CS?

 

[dranrab]

I'd rather a company have people repairing products than emailing customers.

I would prefer they do both. Fix 'em and communicate!

Going back to what I said earlier, I expect them to deliver a product free of defects. They failed on that. The email THEY sent me told me they would let me know when they got the rifle. I expected them to do so. They failed on that. Then they implied in an email that they would get to my rifle within a week and let me know what was going on. They failed on that. When my Remington needed factory service, their communications indicated that it would be about 12 weeks. I wasn't happy with that wait, but I accepted it and expected it and I didn't bug them. If Nosler doesn't want to communicate they shouldn't tell me they will or imply that they will.

So yes, I expect them to fix the gun and communicate.

 

[rbernie]

might the Gunsmith do gunsmithing and the CS person do CS?

These are separate functions done by separate people, but commonly there are company-specific computer applicaitons that link them. That leaves at least 3 obvious ways for them to fail to meet schedule and commitments in the current environment; employees are unable to work due to illness, physical distancing / spacing of shop employees cuts productivity, and physical spacing of CS staff limits their access to the corporate tools.

There is no doubt that you feel hard-done, and I would also. I'm simply pointing out valid and plausible reasons why they might not be able to make it right yet.