discrimination at the gun store/show?

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againstthegrane said:
...you're definitely a fascist..
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Hoo boy..

There are rules, we follow them. One of them is that you have to support your claims. Another is that you aren't supposed to be attacking members. You apparently joined this forum just to start this thread, and thereby attack forum members by suggesting we allow racism to persist. That is why I think your account should be closed. You aren't here to contribute in a positive manner.
 
"You made a claim. A claim that strikes at the character of the members here by suggesting they would allow blatant racism to pass. You can't, and won't support that claim, thus failing a basic tennet of civilized discourse.

I reccomend a moderator close your account."

the word you're looking for is "tenant".

so because i wouldn't drop what i'm doing to appease you, you recommend a mod. close my account. so you're choosing to censor me. good thing you're not in politics. if everyone thought like you we'd have our own version of the taliban in america.

the word is "tenant".

even if you are not racist, you're definitely a fascist to try to shut down a thread that was merely asking if anyone had these experiences. if you can't handle dealing with reading material that offends you, you should exercise your right to click the little "x" in the corner of your browser.
Click to expand...

Actually it's "tenet" but that's beside the point. The point is the level of incivility alone will get this thread locked and you are now contributing to it.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by againstthagrane
i'm not even going to go to much into the whole gun show aspect of the situation other than saying how i'm not surprised that i've experienced racism in the same place where they sell old photos of blacks being lynched for $15 a pop
I'm calling BS on you right now. I have chd sunever seen such a thing sold at a gunshow in the D/FW metroplex.
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Maybe not at the metroplex, but I've seen similar crap sold at gunshows around here.

One "dealer" was selling artwork of John Wayne Gacey's at this table. Mostly paintings of clowns, creepy as hell.

Another cutlery dealer was infamous for the wearing of KKK T-shirts at their booths by himself and his staff. He must have been told to knock it off by the promoters as he now wears NASCAR t_shirts now.

One dealer in KC had issues with what he considered riffraff. Back in the days of 5 day wait I bought a Model 10 sporting a 3 piece suit. I'd been in town for a funeral and stopped by after the services.

I came back 5 days later in cutoffs and a T-shirt and he didn't want to acknowledge my existence in his store. This clown later went out of business and went to work for the lawyers suing the gun industry as a professional witness.

It happens. However for every one of these clowns there are 100 good reputable folks who want your business and will treat you right.
 
"Perhaps a self-examination is in order? I've met jerks too, but just because Bass Pro won't order me a black plastic megablaster doesn't mean that they're racist."

a plastic pistol is a mega-blaster?

i basically just wanted to hear other people's experiences, but i've just been defending myself.

yes, my agenda is to outlaw racism one gun forum at a time. i have been foiled! damn you, batman!
 
I live in Houston, virtually every gun show I go to is about 60% white folks and the rest Hispanic, Black and "other". Being racist in Texas is an "expensive hobby". This state has never had an ULTRA white majority.

This may not come out perfect, but it is something to think about. I have met rude, lazy and incompetent people. When I have to interact with them, those are my judgments. I know for a fact that some "people of color" that run into those same attitudes are quick to point out racism. Quit thinking racism and think "rude, incompetent, lazy" instead. Unless there was some obvious racist content.

I am not kidding here. I have met a real few racists in my time... In the economy we are in, few people prefer white over green.... I am sure the old geezer that didn't help you was, rude, incompetent or lazy...
 
High Road members shouldn't have to defend themselves against charges of racism. While some people may be racist it certianly isn't allowed on the board. For someone to come here and call gun owners racist is beyond the pale and is racist in itself..

jj
 
On a side note....


What is it with Illinois? We don't have Nazi's down here at our gunshows.


There's nothing worse than Illinois Nazis.


-- John
 
"Actually it's "tenet" but that's beside the point. "

whoops, i stand corrected.

why would want to portray gun owners as racists when i AM a gun owner? i don't see your logic there bogie.
 
Calling BS as well, at least on the bullet trap.
I am probably "more racist" than they are, as they have no problem allowing people that look and act like gangbangers to rent guns and shoot, when I'd kick them out. As a frequent shooter there, I see it constantly.

Though at gunshows, I have seen way too much nazi stuff; which is why I usually wear my IDF shirt when I go; i love the stinkeye I get from them.
 
yes, my agenda is to outlaw racism one gun forum at a time.
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I've got a couple better ideas:

1. Worry about society as a whole and not focus on "gun forums."

2. Realize that people are still free to think what they want. "Outlawing" beliefs or views-- even if they are distasteful to you-- is as wrong as that which you combat.


Now we really ARE approaching "Fascism."



-- John
 
Gun shops almost always devalue YOUR gun if you try to sell it. They are just dickering the price. I bought a shotgun in a shop for $180 used, then decided to get something else and sold it back to the same shop, different operator, and he couldn't go more than $50. Then he started finding fault with it saying how it wasn't worth much to start with, and I stopped him. I told him I just bought this gun for $180! He told me I had been taken. I told him I got it from THIS shop last week, and he said I paid too much.

I've noticed when I want to sell something, it isn't worth a plugged nickel, but whatever they are selling is good as gold, until I try to trade it back. It's just making money, not racism. Most shop screw everyone equally when they are BUYING or trading.

They can usually buy it new for less than you want used for it. When I got my FFL, I was astonished at the price a dealer paid for some of the guns I paid upwards of $500. I could now get them for $200, give or take a little.

As for those photos, I'm 46 years old and haven't seen anything like that, anywhere, at any price!
I agree you would need a check up from the neck up to put anything up like that.
 
the bullettrap in plano has got to be the most blatant about their racism. they will pretty much crap on any gun you mention that isn't made in the US or by dark people in another part of the world like beretta and taurus. lol.
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This is not racism. This is nationalism. And I'm all for it. Buy American! Keep your neighbors employed.

Identifying the message "buy American" as racist would be quite a stretch. That nationalism could be mistaken for racism makes me suspect a tendency to label as many as possible of the negative behaviors encountered in others as having racist roots. Rude people abound, everybody gets treated like a jerk, even blonde/blue eyed WASPS like me.

Gun enthusiasts don't concern themselves about the color of the hands that made their guns, instead the quality of the work of those hands. If Shaka Zulu himself was making a superb weapon at a competitive price, white guys would be buying them.
 
Ok everyone, take a deep breath and calm down. The issue for discussion is whether gun store owners/employess tend to exhibit racist characteristics moreso than people in other lines of work. Not whether the OP experienced racism, or whether members of this forum are racist.

It's possible he did experience racism, but it is usually very hard to tell. There are many threads on this forum about what a bunch of arrogant, rude jerks gun store owners can be. It's possible that the people serving the OP were just jerks, and not racist jerks. It is impossible to tell unless they behave differently toward different groups of people.

If he won't order a gun for you, but will order it for white people, that's a racist. If he won't order a gun for you because he's a lousy businessman who doesn't care about his customers, that's not racism. That's poor customer service. Unfortunately you will never know which it is because both behaviors are the same -- he doesn't order the gun.
 
I used to find that sales people in all kinds of stores ignored me when I was younger and first married. I think it was mostly just the fact people thought I had no money. Now with 2 kids and looking older I get more attention. I tend to find the color most care about is green.
 
The one type of gun store employee we all love, is the EXPERT! knows all, when the Glock first came on the market, Cheap/inaccurate/will not fire +p on and on. In the US of A, there is racism, of course there is, it is every where in the world. More common at gun shows/Gun Stores? I don't think so, but every one looks at the world from different places, if you are a non white (stupid term) or not, the original poster has a little aggression he needs to think about.

My Wife was born in Guyana, they say they are West Indian when asked (must have floated off the South American Continent) and as well as being lovely, she has an Indian kind of look. When we moved to Florida I thought we might have some wee problems, 4 years ago, none, no comments of any nature (I am an ex Scouse, of the white kind) kind of aggressive Scouse (are there any other kind?) One thing I have noticed, my accent unlocks the faces of the black people I speak to, there is a kind of mask on the average individual, when I smile and speak, they smile back.

How to deal with a problem? it is not your problem, if some one treats you differently, or you only think they have, move on, nothing you say or do is going to change some one else's attitude, it is their problem.

I am 72, and having a great time, happy and healthy, in love with my Wife, have 4 Grand Kids, love them, two kids, and two step kids, love them as well.

So look out at life with a smile, if things turn bad, act accordingly.
 
I am White but have also been the recipient of discrimination at local gun shops. I now simply purchase all of my guns and ammo online (the exceptions being Sportsman's Warehouse, etc ) and have the guns transferred to a small, friendly FFL run by a fellow who looks just like me; which is somewhere between a member of KISS (without the make-up) and a Palestinian Terrorist.:eek:

I guess I got tired of employees staring darts at me upon entering the store. Most were rude and some even refused to accept transfers. I am a novice collector so nothing in their inventory really interests me anyhow. Most items I am interested in have to be special ordered (Saiga-12 conversion, PKM, Browning M37, etc) but I still would have rather supported a local store if they had offered to research and attempted to procure these items for me.

Despite being extremely cordial and articulate in person, my appearance possibly suggests I am a liberal hippie prick (I'm quite the opposite actually) so I have come to accept 'the look' if I frequent a gun store.

Frankly I learn far more from this website than from any gun store, and am happy to have my transfers sent to a friendly FFL.
 
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Maby this is a case of Crapppie customer service ??
I always treat everyone with my best customer relations I can.
Although I had 1 bad experiance --At a major gun show before nics checks I had a Black guy stop at my table and look over the cobray carbines [They are like mac -10 pistols turned into rifles] hes neat and Seemed like a good guy-I asked what we was going to use them for and he told me he was collecting them because the value would go up-! OK Ill buy that and his Id showed he worked for the postal system after joking around about "going postal" He bought 2 of them. Darn if not 2 weeks later I get a call from -YEP=ATF..Seems My nice guy was in a bunch who were converting them to full auto and reselling them. :cuss:
The one thing you guys forgot about=WOMEN I hear ladies complain about bad service all the time--I work extra hard when a Lady stops by my table .Maby she wont buy something this time But she will always remember the frendly Polite service she got .and when she need that carry peace or hubbys B-day present Thats when it pays off.
 
Heh... I go to gun shows wearing tie-dyes and an NBRSA belt buckle... used to have long hair, still have the beard... And I've had few problems, except with The Old Farts, who assume that anyone under 60 doesn't know diddly... But hey, that's just the Way of the Old Fart, and we must recognize it, and actually cherish it a little.
 
Thanks to the most recent group of posters here; this thread was going downhill fast but y'all brought it back on track. The OP's post was on an interesting and important topic and I know that a lot of us are interesting in hearing things out and seeing what comes from that.

I'll be honest: I have yet to figure out "the look." I've gone to shops and shows wearing everything from ratty cargo pants and a t-shirt to a sportcoat and trousers and I pretty much get treated well by some dealers and poorly by others. Sometimes it's just that the dealer has been messed with so often himself that you've got an initial hurdle to overcome.
 
I am southern white corn bread so I don't know but I do know when I go to gun shows in the Atlanta area there are always a fair number of blacks. I talked to one who was looking at a chinese double barrel shotgun I had just purchased one just like it a month before. Near as I could tell it was two guys talking about a common interest.

I sympathize but a dumb ass is a dumb ass and unless he is in my face I will pay him no mind at all. Last I checked I am positive some of other races do not approve of me either. I am not even going to chime in with the seemingly mandatory white folk I am not a racist disclaimer. (I cave. I AM NOT A RACIST. HONEST) What I am and what I believe means jack unless it affects you. If it does I am sure you can find someone else to do business with.
 
"I am White but have also been the recipient of discrimination at local gun shops. I now simply purchase all of my guns and ammo online (the exceptions being Sportsman's Warehouse, etc ) and have the guns transferred to a small, frindly FFL run by a fellow who looks just like me; which is somewhere between a member of Kiss (without the make-up) and a Palestinian Terrorist.

I guess I got tired of employees staring darts at me upon entering the store. Most were rude and some even refused to accept transfers. I am a novice collector so nothing in their inventory really interests me anyhow. Most items I am interested in have to be special ordered (Saiga-12 conversion, PKM, Browning M37, etc) but I still would have rather supported a local store if they would have researched and attempted to procure these items for me.

Despite being extremely cordial and articulate in person, my appearance possibly suggests I am a liberal hippie prick (I'm quite the opposite actually) so I have come to accept 'the look' if I frequent a gun store.

Frankly I learn far more from this website than from any gun store, and am happy to have my transfers sent to a friendly FFL."


thank you fringe. THIS is the type of thing i was wanting to hear about. Discrimination is not only based on race. it can be anything.

i'm not one to pull the race card willy-nilly, but when i see a clerk helping a middle aged white guy who isn't buying anything with a cheerful disposition and a helping attitude and then completely stoneface me with a one word answer when i have $900 to blow on a pistol. i can't help but assume racism/age-ism. (bass pro shops)
or the guy at the gun show helping everyone BUT me looking at the MIAD replacement grips. i stood around for 4 minutes while he was doing nothing. i kept time on my phone. in this four minutes he made eye contact with me at least three times. i was staring right at him waiting for him to help me and he never did. so i'll be ordering that item online.
maybe, it wasn't racism. maybe he was lazy. maybe he doesn't understand what it means when someone is standing at your booth staring at you so you'll ask them for help. maybe he had bad vision and couldn't tell i was looking at him. there are a lot of possibilities, but only a few likely ones. i, like everyone else in the world perceives events based on past experiences with like events. i can't help that.
i was wearing a fitted t-shirt and trendy fitted jeans(what i always wear when i'm out on the weekend, which is when i make any major purchases). i wasn't wearing a gang colored doo-rag and airforce ones with my pants at my knees. i'm an articulate and polite person. i even say please and thank you at drive through restaurants. THAT is why i felt discriminated against.

i never once in my original post suggested that gun OWNERS were all racist. there are racists everywhere. i wouldn't meet a guy with a toyota who likes tacos and assume all toyota owners like tacos.
 
While I have never seen anyting racist at the gun show(pictures of lynchings,kkk stuff,etc.)some of the people I have talked to make me think they have some at home.You can find racists anywhere North-South-East-West rich or poor.
 
"This is not racism. This is nationalism. And I'm all for it. Buy American! Keep your neighbors employed."

that would make sense if they didn't drink glock, Sig, HK and CZ kool-aid all day long. thats what lead me to form my opinion about that particular issue.
they don't preach buy american. just don't buy from anyone with a year round tan...beretta and taurus.
buying american doesn't always keep americans employed. half of fords are made in mexico and canada.
dell's entire cust. service dept is in india.
springfield XDs are made in croatia.
its all about money and how to make more of it. if a company can save $400,000 by moving certain operations over seas, they will. ultimately its our own fault that its happening, because we want the lowest price. sometimes saving $100 on a new pc end up costing more in the grand scheme of things.
 
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