discrimination at the gun store/show?

[CAPTAIN MIKE]

Another Line of Thinking

I've been frequenting gun shops all my life. I've never seen anything like what the originator of this thread claims. Most people will treat you with respect if you don't come in "with an attitutde".

It seems incredible that all of a sudden all the guns shops in a particular area of the country suddenly developed a racist attitude. After all, many of us have literally fought for freedom for all Americans, regardless of their color. What my experience and my b.s. detector tells me is that this claim is not credible.

On the other hand, people who run gun stores are not reluctant to 'profile' people who come in appearing to have an attitude or appearing to wear gang clothing or appearing to be anything other than respectful, friendly, courteous, kind, cheerful, thrifty, brave or reverent. They have probably had their fill of 'know-it-alls' who are self-appointed experts.

As a long-time firearms user, competitor and instructor, I've run into a few people over the years (as many instructors have) who feel like they should be teaching the class rather than the instructor because they walked in possessing a modicum of knowledge. They're pretty easy to spot once they open their mouth. I'd be inclined to join with others on this website who correctly state that 99.9% of gun owners are upright people of good standing and character who are neither racists nor narrow-minded knuckle-draggers. I'd say that most gun shop employees have enough experience and training to know way more than the average customer walking in, and what might have been mistaken for racism was simply resentment of a know-it-all in their face.

 

[erictank]

Deleted - someone else already said it.

 

[JWarren]

Oh good god... are we still talking about "tenet?"

I've managed to kill a Cottonmouth Moccasin, burn a wood pile, and waste half a brick of .22 with my nephew while we are still nitpicking this.


As I said earlier...


Yes... there IS racism in the gun industry. And there is racism in every other industry, too.

And racism is demonstrated by Whites, by Blacks, by Asians, by Jews, by Arabs, and by everyone else, too.


Seriously, is this a SUPRISE to anyone?

And it isn't going to change anytime soon. Equality isn't about the absence of racism or prejudice. Equality is when every group gets to be racist and prejudice the same as everyone else.

In that regard, I'd say we are doing fine.


-- John

 

[Cel]

I had to chime in on this thread because the thread title caught my attention immediately. I have been discriminated against even though I'm not sure if it was age or race discrimination. This happened over two years ago at my local Gander Mountain. I went in to buy a Taurus PT-145 and there was an employee there (who still works there by the way), who has never really been too friendly to me. (I had another incident with him later on which I will explain after this one).

Anyway, he had seen me in there numerous times before handling the firearms and such. I was in there early that morning and I was the only customer around and he was the only person behind the firearms counter. (Doing nothing but standing there). I finally ask him, after about five minutes of standing there not getting helped, can I see the PT-145 that was in the case. Now keep in mind, I said I have been in there plenty of times before and he had been in there almost everytime I was in there. He ASKS for my ID!!!! I had never been asked for my ID in Gander Mountain before except when I was purchasing. I hadn't told him that I was purchasing yet. To him I just wanted to hold the gun but I knew that's what I came into purchase. After the initial shock, I get my license out and hand it to him. He looks at it and back at me for nearly a minute and hands it back to me and gets the gun out. I 'look' at the gun for all of two seconds and said "I want it".

His faced changed IMMEDIATELY. He turned very red and was all of a sudden very nice. "Yes sir, we'll go ahead and start on your paperwork...blah..blah...blah...Anything else you'd like to see?" I told him no and proceeded with the paperwork. I will say this; my initial shock was met with great satisfaction when I saw his face and whole attitude change. That was one of the best moments of my life to see that I had gotten the best of him. Now pretty much everybody that works in the firearms dept. knows me, with the exception of the newest people ,and I get pretty good service whenever I go in there. I guess sometime the best way to get back at people is to do what they least expect.

 

[xjchief]

I hate everyone equally.

Only half kidding.

 

[Wopasaurus]

On a side note....


What is it with Illinois? We don't have Nazi's down here at our gunshows.


There's nothing worse than Illinois Nazis.


-- John

I hate Illinois Nazis.

+1 on the Blues Bros. reference

 

[JWarren]

Wopasaurus,

I hate Illinois Nazis.

+1 on the Blues Bros. reference

Thank you! I was hoping someone caught it.


-- John

 

[42]

time for a little british humor aided by broadway methinks

well remember as avenue q sings "everyone is a little bit racist"

serously rofiling happens it sucks but smile be polite and restrained and above all high road and you will succeed in MOST!!! cases. Some people well there are some who annot be dealt with.

I get it a lot physical disability apparantly = retard. I disagree I am polite confident and restrained but occasionally I will deal with some one soo obnoxious I will argue. case in point, I wheeled into a cafe with a friend my friend was asked what I wanted to drink. :banghead: Imust confess my respnse was not high road at all.

 

[plexreticle]

I feel racism/intolerance/belittlement is ingrained in the US culture. It is often so subtle that most people don't even realize they are doing. Often its not meant to be malicious but it's there anyway. I see it in these very forums.

To address the OP's comments; The gun sales and range industry is a magnet for narrow-minded loud mouths and know it alls. I don't know why but it's seems to be that way since as long as I can remember. This is one reason why I prefer private sales when I can.

I have found gun enthusiast in general to be the nicest folks you can hang around with. Club shoots and target matches especially. Just the store-front/ guns show guys seem to live in a world of their own for some reason.

 

[Feanaro]

I've been in several gun shops wearing a Pink Floyd t-shirt and tattered jeans. I've been in the same stores wearing slacks and a button-down. There was a different in service without any difference in my attitude(and my wallet certainly didn't get any fatter when I stuffed it in my slacks). The salespeople were never outright rude but they were more reluctant to turn their attention to me and the smile wasn't nearly as wide. Perhaps it's being young, perhaps they didn't think I had the money, whatever. (Sometimes I prefer the neglect though, it's easier to deal with than constantly being steered towards a $4000 1911)

It's not exclusive to the gun industry though. I can certainly tell you that.

 

[Just Jim]

Just Jim........ requests that the thread be shut down..................AND then posts several more times.

The lady (man) doth protest too much!

Well, yesterday there was a thread that was locked about Charelton Heston. What locked it was his stand against liberal gun grabbers and a 20 year old liberal college student demanded the thread be closed.

So I figured if someone conservative demanded the thread be shut down then the mods would keep it open and conversation would be satisfied.Thought I would try it today and it works just great.

jj

 

[Huddog]

I agree with Just Jim, I really don't see how this is firearms related but I did only read page one because I got bored with it.

 

[Feanaro]

Well, yesterday there was a thread that was locked about Charelton Heston. What locked it was his stand against liberal gun grabbers and a 20 year old liberal college student demanded the thread be closed.

It couldn't have been the poster who was hoping out loud that either all liberals or just the ones complaining about Heston, the context wasn't quite clear, get AIDS or a drug addiction.

 

[MIL-DOT]

Same here, only read page one ( and i'm from georgia,too), but i've often found gunstore owners ( employees to a somewhat lesser degree) to often be distant,short,rude,know-it-all,irritable,jerks. I've observed this syndrome over several decades now, in several states, and have even seen and participated in threads concerning this on THR before. I haven't seen this tendency in bike shops,scuba shops,outdoor retailers,or any other type of buisness like i've seen it in the gun retail buisness.And now that i know it's likely coming, i go in with an extra big smile,lots of "yes sirs" and "no hurry at all", but you know, come to think of it, you're probably right, they ARE racist !!! They mus' be dissin' me cuz
i'm WHITE !!!!!!!

 

[MIL-DOT]

" I feel racism/intolerance/belittlement is ingrained in the US culture. "

OK, i might get busted here , but i gotta say something....THAT'S the stupidest thing i've read here in a long time !!! Spoken like someome who's never spent much time outside the country. I've lived most of the last 20 years outside the U.S. so unlike most of my chest-thumping fellow Americans,i HAVE experienced racism, and i can tell you with assurity, it lives and breathes outside our borders,too. In fact, in much of the rest of the world, they don't just tell a few "off-color" jokes,or cop you a little attitude at the check-out counter, they machine gun whole families and bulldoze them into mass graves.
So before you go spouting the party line from CNN, why don't you hop on a plane and take a look around. For all it's flaws and shortcomings,the United States is among the LEAST racist countries on the planet.

 

[hobgob]

You just have to get to know your local gunshop employees and range officers. The first few times i went to the range the guys were a little irritable. But after going there for a few years and talking to the guys, they are nice people. Now that they know who I am, they let me in on the good deals and we stand around and talk about the new merch they just got in. BTW this thread is spiraling out.

 

[Travis Lee]

Good for you Mildot.

I think there have plenty of threads on the subject of gun shop jerks, anecdotes of rude treatment of women, guys under 30, and people wearing clothes other than suits.

uh huh... welcome to grown up life.

Must be nice to blame every slight in life on racism.
Given the tone of the numerous postings of the OP, I would look elsewhere, for his social issues.

What I especially resent is the wide ranging accusation of gun shop people being out and out racist and the hardly veiled imputation of racism to the firearms community at large.

In the PC environment of today the ACCUSATION or SUGGESTION of racism means that I am obligated to bow, bend and scrape, assure everyone that while white, all of my best friends are black, hispanic, or one-legged homosexuals, and I so, SO sincerely and abjectly sumbit myself to as much humiliation as required if people will just please, PLEASE stop calling me the "R" word. (snivel snivel)

Find another victim for racial mau mauing.

--Travis--

 

[Thor Bloodax]

lynching photos

Hey, TNTWATT, I live in middle Ga too and I have seen the lynching photos, KKK, Natzi stuff at gun shows in Macon but that was 20 or so years ago. None lately not even the rude bumper stickers. I did not see anyone buyingfrom these tables, just identifying and ignoring. The sales seem slow at all the recent shows I have been to and the clerks/owners/etc seem to be eager to serve any interested person. Even though Macon is about 55% black Americans, I see very few black American people at the shows. They are not excluded but just don't show up. What is new in this area in the last few years is tables run by black Americans or Asian Americans. All the gun stores I have been in in Middle Georgia seem to be very egalitarian.

 

[plexreticle]

"I feel racism/intolerance/belittlement is ingrained in the US culture. It is often so subtle that most people don't even realize they are doing. Often its not meant to be malicious but it's there anyway. I see it in these very forums."

MIL-DOT: OK, i might get busted here , but i gotta say something....THAT'S the stupidest thing i've read here in a long time !!! Spoken like someome who's never spent much time outside the country. I've lived most of the last 20 years outside the U.S. so unlike most of my chest-thumping fellow Americans,i HAVE experienced racism, and i can tell you with assurity, it lives and breathes outside our borders,too. In fact, in much of the rest of the world, they don't just tell a few "off-color" jokes,or cop you a little attitude at the check-out counter, they machine gun whole families and bulldoze them into mass graves.
So before you go spouting the party line from CNN, why don't you hop on a plane and take a look around. For all it's flaws and shortcomings,the United States is among the LEAST racist countries on the planet.

Who said it doesn't happen outside the US? So your saying I'm wrong? How are my comments America bashing?

LOL, too funny, you really have no idea what you're talking about.

HE SAID SOMETHING BAD ABOUT USA!!! HE HATE HIS COUNTRY HE WATCHES CNN AND IS BRAIN WASHED!!!

Do you own a gun shop by any chance?

 

[moga]

I've certainly experienced "ageism" while buying firearms but not sure if I've been a victim of "racism" while at a show/shop. Not sure how to tell the difference without an overt act to clear it up.

Who cares though? As someone else has said, just take your money elsewhere. Lots of good people to deal with in the country.

Sidebar: I'm confused and maybe someone can help. Is the setting for this thread DFW, TEXAS or somewhere in GA? Cause I understood it to be Dallas-Fort Worth but I keep noticing GA pop up here and there.

 

[no_problem]

<<i can appreciate the advice blackbeard, but i was wearing what i always wear on my free time. jeans and a t-shirt and possibly a baseball cap. having worked in retail i can say from first hand experience that people will surprise you. the guy wearing a t-shirt and shorts is just as likely to drop $5000 in your store as the guy in a pinstripe suit and $300 loafers.>>

Yes, it's true. You can't judge a book by it's cover. In certain part of the world, people who have money intentionally dress down to "blend in" with the populace. It's a strategy to deceive the criminals. That mental model has been spread out here in the US as well.

<<i just want to know if i'm alone or if anyone else gets the "potential al qaeda look when going to certain gun shops. >>

Yes, I have experienced it. My reaction is simple. If you are selling something, I have money, If I am not happy, money walks. Buh bye!

 

[NDGeek]

"I feel racism/intolerance/belittlement is ingrained in the US culture. It is often so subtle that most people don't even realize they are doing. Often its not meant to be malicious but it's there anyway. I see it in these very forums."

The best thing about America is that we actually have these discussions. If you go around the world most places are much more intolerant than we are.

If you look for racism, you will find it. If you continously think you are being descriminated again, you will find ways to prove it.

Going through life playing the victim solves nothing.

The culture you practice and the way you present yourself matter much more than the color of your skin. Race is an after thought if you are a decent guy who presents himself as a normal person.

When someone pulls the race card they loose all credibility in my mind (not saying you did this).

That is my $.02.

Where is the fark.com "That's racist" kid when you need him.

BTW this thread is spiraling out.

Yes, I would have to agree

 

[MIL-DOT]

(quote)"I feel racism/intolerance/belittlement is ingrained in the US culture. It is often so subtle that most people don't even realize they are doing. Often its not meant to be malicious but it's there anyway. I see it in these very forums."

(quote)"Who said it doesn't happen outside the US? So your saying I'm wrong? How are my comments America bashing?

(quote)LOL, too funny, you really have no idea what you're talking about."

Your statement "racism...belittlement is ingrained in the US culture", very clearly implies that you mean MORE than everywhere else. Learn what the words mean before you use them,you'll likely find it very helpful. So,yes, comparatively speaking, you're wrong. How are your comments "America bashing"? When you essentially state that America is composed of born and bred racists, while the fact of the matter remains that America is more obsessed with eliminating all traces of racism than any country on the planet,that constitutes ignorance of the facts,and yes, "America bashing". Show me another country that has as many foreign ( or non-majority) individuals as members of their national sports teams, mayors of major cities,police chiefs,corporate heads,not to mention a Secretary of State and a Presidential front runner.
Yeah, OK, i got no idea what i'm talking about. And my 15-20 years living and working abroad are further testament to my lack of knowledge on the subject of ethnic relations (BTW, i'm typing this from my job Roatan,Honduras).

 

[plexreticle]

Your statement "racism...belittlement is ingrained in the US culture", very clearly implies that you mean MORE than everywhere else. Learn what the words mean before you use them,you'll likely find it very helpful. So,yes, comparatively speaking, you're wrong. How are your comments "America bashing"? When you essentially state that America is composed of born and bred racists, while the fact of the matter remains that America is more obsessed with eliminating all traces of racism than any country on the planet,that constitutes ignorance of the facts,and yes, "America bashing". Show me another country that has as many foreign ( or non-majority) individuals as members of their national sports teams, mayors of major cities,police chiefs,corporate heads,not to mention a Secretary of State and a Presidential front runner.
Yeah, OK, i got no idea what i'm talking about. And my 15-20 years living and working abroad are further testament to my lack of knowledge on the subject of ethnic relations (BTW, i'm typing this from my job Roatan,Honduras).

You infer from my comments I haven't traveled abroad, I watch CNN or any television at all and I am comparing the US to other countries and that I feel I know more than anybody else. How you came up with that is beyond me. I didn't say the US is more racist that other countries. Something you are clinging to even though it was never suggested by me.

If you honestly believe there isn't a subtle racisms/belittlement ingrained in US culture then you really are out of touch with America. Anything motivated by race, benign, well intended or ill intended is racist. Television programing is especially bad so is our current presidential elections.

It's a simple concept really, sorry you're missing it. Not that you're interested but, look up the word subtle and perhaps you'll begin to grasp some the concept. I'm not talking about lynchings and apartheid.

 

[MIL-DOT]

(quote) "Anything motivated by race, benign, well intended or ill intended is racist."
OK, i think we're on the same page with that one, though i'm not quite sure. We both may well be misunderstanding each other.At any rate, it's late, and i'm ready to hit the rack,so no hard feelings, catch you later......M.