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Disruptions to powder supply - AP70N

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by Dudedog, Dec 7, 2013.

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  1. Dudedog
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    Dudedog Contributing Member

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    If AP70N is what I think it is hopefully we will see some at the start of 2014.

    http://www.adi-powders.com.au/handloaders-guide/news.asp

    Understatement of the year....
    "ADI Powders are aware that some of our customers may have lately experienced some difficulty in getting hold of some of our powders. We are aware of some temporary disruptions to powder supply at the moment, resulting in a few localised powder shortages"


    Ouch!, the dreaded loacalised powder shortage rears its ugly head.
    :banghead:

    Not trying to bad mouth ADI or anyone I just thought the end of statement was funny.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2013
  2. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    That company is speaking to their home base in Australia, not to America.
     
  3. Dudedog
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    Dudedog Contributing Member

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    Yes, I know they were talking about ADI powders in Australia.
    Just thought it was kind of funny. It seems that we have the same situation here in the US with most suppliers and most powders so I was just laughing at the localised powder shortage part. There may not be a "shortage" there may just be a huge increase in demand that is outstripping supply making powder difficult to find.
    Now if I just had a .50BMG (and they were legal in California) I could find powder for it.:)
    Maybe I have not been looking for powder in the right places.:banghead:
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2013
  4. USSR

    USSR Member

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    Ya think?:rolleyes:

    Don
     
  5. W.E.G.

    W.E.G. Member

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    Once again, the advice is to acquire a THREE-YEAR supply of the ammo components that you know you will actually use.

    This will eliminate personal shortages in almost every instance.
     
  6. Dudedog
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    Dudedog Contributing Member

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    For those of us who shoot quite a bit there might be legal (as well as monetary:eek:)issues about a three year supply. Some places NFPA 495 applies and limits you for example to storing 10000 primers and 20 lbs of powder in residences. Some places are even more restrictive.

    (Note: I am not a lawyer and did not stay at a Holiday inn last night)

    http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/index.cfm?page=pubs
    See items 200 and 201
    I wish I it was possible for me to have a three year supply.

    Maybe if I win the Power Ball one day....
     
  7. sexybeast

    sexybeast Member

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    Does anyone know what AD70 is? Is it sold here?
    There has been some discussioni of this on another thread.
    I heard that it was Universal and it was produced by ADI for Hodgdon to sell her in the states.
     
  8. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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    This chart shows "equivalents" similar but NOT the same

    http://www.adi-powders.com.au/handloaders-guide/equivalents.asp
     
  9. morcey2

    morcey2 Member

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  10. sexybeast

    sexybeast Member

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    Won't open and wants me to download a program.
    Feel free to copy and paste. I would like to read it.
    I did read the load data on ADI's site and I would be suprised if they were the same powders.
     
  11. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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    Can't cut and paste a PDF it probably wants you to download Adobe Reader so you can read PDF files.

    Adobe Reader is safe and a good thing to download.

    It says the same equvilant as the link I posted above about clays, universal
     
  12. ngnrd

    ngnrd Member

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    Here's a quick screenshot of part of the first page of the MSDS for AP70N.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Dudedog
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    Dudedog Contributing Member

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    Rats, zipped it up but it is still above the attachment size.

    Be careful installing Acrobat sometimes it wants to install other stuff as well.
    Note: Adobe reader is fairly safe but bad .pdfs can and do exist, And Adobe flash is nice, but flash and Java are responsible for creating a lot of security holes,
    at least in Windows in my opinion.

    Sorry this is off thread.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2013
  14. W.E.G.

    W.E.G. Member

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    There's always a way to justify not being prepared, eh?
     
  15. Dudedog
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    Dudedog Contributing Member

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    Ah yes, if there are any legal issues involved.

    I would love to have a bomb proof bunker on a couple of hundred square miles of land with lots of food, water, gas, medical supplies, guns and ammo, where I could just walk outside and shoot, just like I would prefer not to have to go to work on Monday but for most of us there are monetary considerations, if you don't have to worry about money I am happy for you.

    I will leave it there as I don't want this to deteriorate and deviate from the High Road.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2013
  16. sexybeast

    sexybeast Member

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    Well if this is true there is still a problem. If this is correct and Universal is made by ADI which they call AD70 then their load data is messed up.
    They call for a max load of 5.5 behind a 140gr lead bullet in 40s&w.
    I was loading 5.4 and they were soft and light. They also wrote that they would be doing 1150fps and I observed 1k fps less than that.
    These loads they are listing are "very" light and they are calling them max. I have my doubts still.
     
  17. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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    Download Adobe Reader it is perfectly safe, just do not download the tool bar it may try to attach.

    You can look up Varget powder which made by ADI and known as AR2208 but again it is the same as the first chart from ADI
     
  18. Dudedog
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    Dudedog Contributing Member

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    I see the same sort of thing in 9mm data and I am sure there are more for other powders/cartridges as well)
    ADI
    L 125 AP70N 3.5 980 27,000 psi 3.8 1,055 33,050 psi
    Hodgdon
    125 GR. LCN Hodgdon Universal .356" 1.125" 3.8 993 24,400 CUP 4.3 1096 31,300 CUP
    Hodgdons start is ADIs max!

    I do see in this case that one pressure is in CUP and the other is PSI, sure wish we could get everything in PSI so we could compare apples to apples not oranges.

    ADI does not show an OAL and this might be the difference or it might be due to different 125 gr lead bullets.
    IF AP70N is Universal hopefully we will see more of it soon.
    Right now it is one of my favorites but I have not been able to try HP38/W231 yet, even though someone here kindly offered me some.

    Not to be disagreeable and leave The High Road, but to say Acrobat Reader is perfectly safe is like saying reloading is perfectly safe.
    If a person is careful yes they are, if not bad things can happen. It might be better to say Acrobat reader itself is somewhat safe (However, I have in my experience with 1000s of machines seen it conflict with other software and cause issues on occasion, but not often) However .pdfs are not "perfectly safe" as they can contain viruses, just like Word/Excell and other format files for example. Just Google/BING/whatever search PDF + virus. I can say that I have seen infected PDFs found by antivirus software, antivirus in a corparate enviroment is part of my job. If you don't believe legitimate software can be unsafe look up exploits on Flash and Java two very commonly used pieces of software.
    For example.

    http://www.kaspersky.com/about/news/virus/2013/is_there_any_protection_against_java_exploits
    Adobe reader is mentioned there.

    I use Adobe reader ( and have also used the full version) and I consider Acrobat Reader a necesary evil like taxes.

    PS I hope I don't get a warning for using a nasty word like taxes.....
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2013
  19. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    This it?
     

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  20. sexybeast

    sexybeast Member

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    I was just reading this myself. No way 3.8 of Universal is 33k psi!
    I agree with the load, I loaded 3.7gr behind a 125gr lead rn. Good and soft and accurate load, But I also agree with Hogdons that its closer to 25k psi.
    Something is very wrong with their data and pressure specs.
     
  21. Dudedog
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    Dudedog Contributing Member

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    sexybeast I followed your advice and backed down from 4 to 3.8 and to me the 3.8 seems soft, way softer than factory S+B. 3.8 shoots well for me though so why push it. I had went up to 4.3 (Hodgdons max with a 125 lead TCN) which according to ADI would be way over.

    Maybe something to do with being on the bottom half of the world, I understand things are strange there, water drains the wrong way, there are prams, lorries, car parks , spanners etc.:)
    And yes that is the MSDS and it appears to be legit from imrpowder. (Hodgdon/IMR/Winchester powder)

    Lets hope walkalong is not being:evil: and trying to slip us a bad pdf!:neener:
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2013
  22. ngnrd

    ngnrd Member

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    Sorry. You have been given bad information. You can take my word for it, or you can look it up here if you want (you'll have to register to access the NFPA standards, but it's free).

    I just looked up the MSDS's for Federal and CCI primers, and they are both listed as 1.4S. So the 150k primer limit stated in NFPA 495-14.5.6 would apply. (I didn't actually look up the other brands, but I assume that they will be the same.)

    So, that leaves the NFPA 495-14.3.7.2 requirement of building a storage box from 1-inch thick wood in order to be able to store 50# of powder. That's enough powder for more than 7500 rounds of 308 (at 45gr/round), or about 14,000 rounds of 223 (at 25gr/round), or 50,000 rounds of 45ACP (at 7gr/round). And, this would be in addition to whatever quantity of completed ammunition you may have on hand. So, I'm sure there are folks out there that shoot more than this in the span of a year or two. But, for the VAST majority of hand loaders, building a wooden box just doesn't seem to me to be an overly onerous requirement in order to be prepared for the next shortage.

    NOTE: NFPA 495-14.3.7.1 says you can have up to 20# of powder in its original containers - without the requirement to store it all in a wooden box.
     
  23. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    Big wooden box, with a way for the pressure to release.
     
  24. Dudedog
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    Dudedog Contributing Member

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    Thanks, interesting.
    SAAMI shows NFPA 11-5.4 as showing 10000. Also shows 25000 in a car but only 10000 in a residence, that does not make sense. I was told by a vendor (as I recall) when inquiring how many could be shipped at one time that the limit was 65lbs. Don't have any idea if that is correct, does not seem right. That would be a WHOLE bunch of primers and I would imagine 65lbs would make a sizable bang to say the least if something went wrong.

    And yes I saw the box requirement. It's interesting because it says 1" wood walls, does not say what kind of wood, balsa, pine, oak etc. but requires a "weak" wall for venting
    How weak is "weak", certainly we don't want to create bomb storing powder by containing it to tightly. I know balsa is streching it but just using it for an example. I would be interested if someone had an "approved" design. Might not be a bad idea even if you did not have more than 20lbs but had more than a couiple.

    I will do more follow up research.
    It was certainly not my intention to present inaccurate information .
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2013
  25. Dudedog
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    Dudedog Contributing Member

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    Thanks for the pic Walkalong that gives me some ideas. The cutout/hole is the "weak" side?
     
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