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Divorce and Guns taken away

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Burl, Aug 18, 2009.

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  1. Burl

    Burl Member

    Feb 15, 2009
    I am a Texas CHL holder and an NRA member. I do not have any gun, drug, alcohol or domestic abuse issues, arrests, etc. I am going through an ugly divorce and have a wife that is afraid of guns. Guns were brought up in our Temporary Orders hearing and have been included in the Temporary Orders.
    The wording is as follows: "There is a mutual injunction as to persons therefore the Father is not to have in his possession or control a firearm and he is placed on notice that he is not to have in his possession any firearm until such time as the injunction is dissolved. The firearms may be delivered to a third party for storage such as paternal grand parent."

    I don't believe there is justification to do this but it is too expensive to fight and not as high a priority as custody of my children. I am now not going to be able to participate in dove season and duck season because of his decision. I enjoy my outdoor activities in the Fall and now a couple of my favorite pastimes have been taken away.

    In addition, I am now disarmed and my father-in-law has threatened, in the past, to "take me out" if I did anything he did not like.

    What is the best course of action, that does not involve breaking the bank with attorney fees, to get my guns back?

    Thanks for any input,

    Mike Ives
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2009
  2. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

    Feb 16, 2003
    Ft. Worth
    My opinion? Get the divorce over and done with then move on.

    Get rid of the guns for now, let a friend keep them or whatever. Don't risk violating the court order, just get it over with as quickly as possible.

    Just my 2 cents.

    She decides to get nasty and accuse you of any violence and your loss of guns will last much much longer than one dove season.

    You don't want anywhere near Lautenberg:

    There is some fine print in Lautenberg, but it can be a very nasty law.

    Lay low and get it over with seems to be the best move.
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2009
  3. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

    Dec 24, 2002
    Well first of all the court does have the authority too do what it did. However, as you may not have noticed, the order is a temporary one. This means that in the near future another hearing must be held, and that's when you (or better yet, your lawyer) gets a chance to get your side of the story on record.

    Your lawyer can also file a motion, asking for relief from the firearms clause. In it he can show you’re past (clean) history with no evidence of domestic violence. He can ask that your soon-to-be ex-wife be required to show proof (beyond her unsupported word) that she is endangered. He can claim that her desire to block you from having or using firearms is based on vindictiveness, and not threat, and her lawyer will have to convince the court that it is otherwise.

    What should you do? Well the first thing you should do - if you haven't already - is talk to an attorney who is a specialist in divorce cases.
  4. Mp7

    Mp7 Member

    Feb 28, 2008

    i am sooo not marrying!

    +1 on staying quiet and complying.

    Can´t you go hunting with friends
    and use theirs in the field?
    Would be a shame to feel deprived of favourite pasttimes.
  5. beatcop

    beatcop Member

    Sep 14, 2008
    How long will this process take? My advice, take up golf and be Mr. Rogers...no sense in attracting undue attention. As soon as the ex sees that you actually care about a particular issue, she may start some drama.
  6. scottaschultz

    scottaschultz Member

    Mar 27, 2009
    In the words of my ex's attorney, "Fair is a weather report!"

    This only goes to prove that the person who initiates the proceedings has the upper hand. Of course I do not know the circumstance, but it is possible your soon-to-be ex went to her lawyer and said that you had guns and that she did not trust you. All her lawyer has to do at that point is go to a judge and say that her client believes that her spouse might not be trusted with firearms.

    Like others have said, just let it go and let it pass quietly.


    (OK, I deserve the last edit by rbernie!) Me, bitter? No way!
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2009
  7. offthepaper

    offthepaper Member

    Dec 5, 2005
    I went through the same exact thing in my divorce (and then some).

    Texas is giving you sound advise. let a friend or relative take control of the guns. Yes, you will be deprived of your pasttime, yes, it's a PITA. But better that than lose your freedom for violating a court order. If you choose to go that route, be prepared for the local LEO's to be holding your guns instaed of a friend/relative (good luck getting them back from them) It's just one step in a long painful process.

    Be the one to show the court that you are indeed the calm cooperating one in this mess. It will be to your benefit later in the proceedings. Lawyer up, and let him do the talking.
    The crazy thing about my divorce was it seemed odd to me that the judge ruled that her jewlery were "gifts" from me , but my guns were "community property" :cuss:.

    But fear not, the advantage of getting this over with and still retain your right to own guns is that.................. from now on, you won't have to clear your next FA purchase through her or anyone else. You likely will end up with a much nicer collection than you presently have.
    I did. :D

    Good luck
  8. Yo Mama

    Yo Mama Member

    Jun 4, 2008
    Man, like every other week a new post on a crazy ex. Either a restraining order, or they go nuts and ruin a good gun.

    My advise: run like hell

    However: You can be happy in the future, and will. You sound like a great guy, and I'm sure you'll find a sane pro-gun gal.
  9. jmorris

    jmorris Member

    Sep 30, 2005
    I agree with this one.

    I’d keep my mouth shut or she might want the half of them she is entitled to, out of spite.

    I’m not sure what’s legal now that this has already started but I’d have “sold” them all to a friend already, $1 sounds fair to me.
  10. HoosierQ

    HoosierQ Member

    Mar 27, 2008
    Central Indiana.
    Yeah...don't be hiding a gun or something like that. That'll be playing right into you "opponent's" hands.

    I have aquantainces that have had similar episodes. One, from the wife perspective where the ex-hubby was "crazy". His brother-in-law took possession of the guns for him and after all the smoke cleared, he got them back.

    In another, a fella had some sort of bitter divorce. Not real sure if the guy was perceived as a threat to himself or somebody else. His brother took his guns and he also got them back.

    The consistent factor...both complied with the orders, neither put up much of a fuss, and both got their guns back.

    I am sure others have episodes to recount that ended differently but these are my two.
  11. Grey54956

    Grey54956 Member

    Jul 22, 2003
    Give your guns to a friend for safe keeping until this whole thing is straightened out.

    If possible, see if you can crash at another buddy's place for the duration of the divorce. Make sure that this buddy can vouch for your whereabouts much of the time, just in case she decides to play the Lautenberg Shuffle on you. "No, your honor, I did not beat or threaten my wife. My buddy and I were at the local bowling alley at the time as he will attest to. That woman is a liar."

    If her father threatens you, bring this up in court. If he is doing it on her behalf, it will be difficult for her to play the Lautenberg card.

    Walk the straight and narrow until this thing is done.
  12. rbernie
    • Contributing Member

    rbernie Member

    Jan 21, 2004
    Norra Texas
    As a reminder to all - the issue is what to do with the guns and not about what to do with the soon-to-be-ex. I've already had to address several instances of bad behavior in this thread.

    If you wanna really help address the OP - keep it on topic and keep it civil. If you can't do that - don't post.
  13. Fryerpower

    Fryerpower Member

    Jun 23, 2006
    Is there a more formal place you can store them? Do local gun ranges have storage that you can rent? Maybe giving the key to your lawyer for safe keeping?

    (I am personally interested in the answer for off-topic reasons. I was considering a job in ********** and I have several guns that are not legal there...like my .22 semi-automatic rifle with the under the barrel non-detachable tube magazine. It holds something like 17 Long Rifle bullets. It must be so much more dangerous with those 7 extra bullets in there! :rolleyes:)

  14. Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow

    Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow member

    Nov 14, 2007
    What TexasRifleman said.
  15. Ghost Walker

    Ghost Walker Member

    Jul 1, 2005
    Now, I can't tell you what to do; and, of course, IANAL. However if I had my own divorce to go through again, I'd use some of the same dirty tricks on her that my first wife used on me.

    Most of the time divorce is an ugly business. As good old Winston Churchill once remarked; (And, I paraphrase.) 'If you want to be guaranteed to win, you must be even MORE ruthless than your opponent.'

    Your FIL slipped up when he made that threatening remark. IMO, you would do well to make a public issue out of that threat. (Besides, how do you know it wasn't entirely sincere?)
  16. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

    Dec 24, 2002
    Readers should note the exact language in the court's order:

    Therefor the O.P. cannot have a firearm, his own, one borrowed, one rented, nothing.

    This may be seen as right or wrong, but it doesn't change the circumstances:

    No guns whatsoever, until the order is lifted.
  17. peyton

    peyton Member

    Apr 20, 2006
    Take a breath, follow the court order, finish divorce proceedings. There will be other hunting seasons and time to go to the range. I would also suggest a formal document listing guns and serial numbers, have your trusted friend who is storing them for you to sign document in front of a Notary Public. This way you have proof no firearms are in your possession.

    Cool is the word, to the ex and the ex's family. FOCUS on your kids and my mother in law told me "You might get rid of the wife, but you do not get rid of the family". Try to focus on the positive for the kid's sake.
    You want the judge to have no doubt you can follow instructions and this will help when discussing what is best for the kids future.
  18. eatont9999

    eatont9999 Member

    Feb 25, 2008
    The Lone Star State
    And have your friend pay you with a certified check. Also, provide him with a receipt with all the items and serial numbers listed. Keep a copy too. Hopefully he will later sell them back to you.
  19. stchman

    stchman Member

    Jun 13, 2009
    Saint Louis, MO
    Yes, just divorce the woman and get it over with.

    Take your firearms over to a good friend's house for storage.

    I would report the father-in-law to the same judge and get a restraining order put against him.

    Since you are an NRA member call the NRA. They have lawyers to fight for the rights of gun owners.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 18, 2009
  20. PTK

    PTK Member

    Mar 25, 2007
    Unfortunate perhaps, but common. Similarly, my truck was a "gift" from my ex, while all of her expensive cooking equipment was "community". :D

    Anyway, having gone through just about the same thing (sudden divorce, loss of right to bear arms), I'd say comply with the order, get a good lawyer, and get a divorce ASAP. It may get worse if you don't just get it over with, friend. :)
  21. KenWP

    KenWP member

    Feb 21, 2009
    All it says is the guns have to be out of his possesion not not own them. Possesion and owning are two different things. My brother had to hold my guns for a year for the same reasons untill my ex moved out of the country and she had a 10 year restriction of firearms placed on her.
    I have heard a 100 and 10 husbands say they are not violent if I have heard one and you never know which one will go off the deep end so everybody has to be treated the same. Just do what you have to do and play the waiting game untill things settle down. There is nothing like a woman scorned as the saying goes and it also applies to men being scorned also. A year with out hunting beats a lifetime with out guns period.
  22. ijosef

    ijosef Member

    Feb 10, 2009
    St. Paul, MN
    Yeah, the judge is dead wrong to deprive you of your 2nd Amendment rights, but he has the legal authority to do so. Not all law is good law, especially when it's an affront to natural law, but this is not a battle worth fighting.

    As has been said numerous times, get through the divorce, get your guns back, and try to move on.
  23. Noxx

    Noxx Member

    Jun 8, 2007
    Reminded me of a favorite Wambaugh quote from The Choirboys, "Hey, the Marquis of Queensbury is just some queer over on eighth street". Unfortunately, in divorce, as in a gunfight, "fair" is whatever you can get away with. Sorry to hear about the mess, hang in there.
  24. ConstitutionCowboy

    ConstitutionCowboy member

    Mar 15, 2006
    I'm with Tex and Dr. Tad.

    Don't go hunting and use someone else's gun as MP7 thought to ask about. You'd be in violation of the court order and in some really deep do-do. Getting your guns back would be much more difficult.

    You are now in a position to challenge the Lautenburg Amendment if you so choose. All it'll take is a few million dollars and a gaggle of lawyers.


    There is a current wave of freedom being expressed in this great country of ours. We can join that wave in the political arena now or be forced to join it on the battlefield later.
  25. ojibweindian

    ojibweindian Member

    Dec 27, 2002
    Union Grove, Alabama
    I was in the exact same boat back in 2000. First thing my lawyer did was to get a hearing on the order of protection and injunction against my possession of my guns. He was able to get the order of protection and injunction thrown out because my ex and her attorney were unable to show that I was a threat.

    Other advice to you; if legal in your area, record every phone call between your ex and yourself, take copious and detailed notes on EVERY dealing that you have with your estranged wife, and NEVER EVER put yourself in a position to be alone with her; have a friend come with you, as a witness, every time you must see your estranged wife in person.

    If you receive any threats from any member of her family, capture VERBATIM who said it, what was said, how it was said, when it was said, etc, then report it to the authorities. Never take any threat lightly. Start with your father in law.

    You're going to need a ton of emotional/spiritual support. Divorce is bad enough, but a divorce AND custody fight is absolutely hellish on fathers. Don't become a recluse. Family and friends are extremely important in maintaining an emotional center. If you go to church, keep going! God will see you through this as he saw me through my divorce.

    Finally, every chance you get, do stuff with your kids. Go to the park, go fish, or just watch tv. Provide for them the best "normalcy" you can.

    I shall pray for your children and you; may God's peace see you through this trying time.
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