Do any LEOs open carry off duty or when retired?

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by JellyJar, Dec 3, 2009.

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  1. JellyJar

    JellyJar Member

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    Since I have been posting on this forum there have been two threads about open carrying. Many advocate open carry because they believe criminals will not attack an openly armed person and that there are no significant safety issues involved. I, on the other hand, believe that the dangers of open carry far outweigh any benefits. So how, if at all, can we decide who is right and who is wrong? I think I know.

    If open carry is such a good idea then surely LEOs, at least those with lots of street experience, should know! Therefore lets here from current LEOs, former LEOs, and retired LEOs that may be reading this forum. Do you or would you open carry when off duty or now that you are either retired or no longer working as a LEO if you could?:confused:

    I mean while not in uniform.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2009
  2. dondavis3

    dondavis3 Member

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    Great question :what:

    Can't wait to read the answers.

    I used to think open carry was the way to go, now I've changed camps.

    :)
     
  3. franconialocal

    franconialocal Member

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    I open carry when hiking, fishing, in the back-country, etc. (generally in wilderness/outdoor settings) or just out for a walk on my or nearby properties because I like the fast availability with it while working with outdoor gear, jackets, backpacks, etc.

    I DON'T usually open carry when in town, at the stores, with my girlfriend, around large groups of people, etc. because I don't like drawing too much attention to myself or the fact that I am (or "may" be) a LEO. I like to retain the element of suprise even though EVERYONE around here knows who I am (see below)
    That's not to say that I haven't....but I generally try not to.

    I live in northern NH where it's still very pro 2A, and the area is still very much based on the outdoor/hunting type culture (the nearest "big" town is only about 6,500 people) so people that DO open carry don't necessarily draw cautious looks. The only people that seem threatened by our freedom up here are those from south of the NH border...Mass./ NY/ Conn./ RI etc. :cuss: We'll get calls about someone carrying a rifle (during hunting season) or a handgun and the usual response is "Yup....[insert name here] must be out hunting again" *lol*. My patrol is around 100 sq./mi. with only about 1,000 people, so still very rural and "hometown" feeling.

    I'd be interested to see what more of the suburban/city guys say.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2009
  4. JellyJar

    JellyJar Member

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    I would guess that if current or former LEOs ( not in uniform ) do not open carry then it would not be such a wise thing for the rest of us. If they do then perhaps I will not order that IWB holster I have been thinking about.

    Please note that I cannot provide any citation for what I am about to say next. It seems to me to be unreasonable to expect citations on a forum like this the way you would in a scholarly journal.

    I read somewhere that in parts of Israel it is so common for the citizens to carry handguns in public that it does not make sense to conceal them so they don't. So I think that if it should ever become so common here in this country for people to carry handguns in public ( say 80 or 90 percent ) that there would no longer be any extra value for carrying their primary sidearm concealed.

    But of course that would not be the same for any BUGs.
     
  5. BrianB

    BrianB Member

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    I'm interested to hear too. Thanks in advance!
     
  6. Atroxus

    Atroxus Member

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    About the Israel thing, I also heard that Israel and Switzerland let military personell keep their service rifles when they leave the military. I am curious though what percentage of people in those countries carry handguns, concealed or open.
     
  7. luigi

    luigi Member

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    Care to cite this or is it just opinion?
    It seems to me to be unreasonable to state something as fact if you can't back it up.
     
  8. indoorsoccerfrea

    indoorsoccerfrea Member

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    Seems pretty clear that it is an opinion to me, luigi...
     
  9. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator Staff Member

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    i had some friends who returned from a trip to Israel last year and knowing that i'm a gun guy, they brought back pictures of the various guns the saw.

    active, but off duty,military and reservist usually carried their rifles on slings...this makes sense since they were easily recognizable as military personnel and would be an obvious target for a potential attack anyway.

    their tour guide showed them his concealed Glock 17. the only openly carried handguns they saw were by security personnel at the airport.

    since i've retired from LE, i've never been inclined to open carry when i've been in locals where it was legal.

    i neither look nor carry myself as a "cop", it's a rather carefully cultivated persona...if i should have to use my gun, i want it to be a complete surprise to my target. i figure surprise might be worth between .1 to .25 sec in their reaction time
     
  10. C-grunt

    C-grunt Member

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    For me it depends what Im carrying. If its my duty Glock 22, I carry it usually OWB because its rather large and somewhat uncomfortable to carry IWB. If I end up going somewhere that doesnt allow guns, Ill throw my shirt over it.

    My Glock 27 is usually carried concealed.

    Really just depends on the mood Im in.
     
  11. KJS

    KJS Member

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    I live in Wisconsin, one of the two states that don't allow for concealed carry. There are folks (I've never see any of them in person) who will strap a pistol to their belt and take a walk simply to make a political statement. This was especially true after our attorney general J.B. Van Hollen put out a statement last spring that clarified that WI law allows for open carry. This was to assist any local DAs who were confused about such legal matters and would try to charge such as disorderly conduct.

    I see one problem with open carry. Someone openly packing a gun would seem to make a very tempting target for a gang of criminals that would love to have his gun. A couple guys could hit him on the head & tackle him while another criminal grabs his gun. And they would all do this after looking around to make sure nobody else is openly packing a gun.

    This doesn't work in a concealed carry state as the bad guys don't know who to attack. Concealed carry leaves a very dangerous mystery from criminals. Try to rob somebody and you might find the lady behind you had a gun in her purse, a gun that is now shoved in your back. And the bad guys couldn't have attacked her for her gun, as they have no idea which gal has a gun in her purse and which doesn't.
     
  12. nitetrane98

    nitetrane98 Member

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    We don't have OC in Texas but if I was in plain clothes and didn't want to take the time to take my gun off I had a belt clip badge that took care of any problems. The SO policy was if the gun's showing the badge had to be showing. Of course it would have been perfectly legal to carry an empty holster but that looks kind of lame. Obviously we could carry concealed without worrying about a permit or anything.
     
  13. Pistol Toter

    Pistol Toter Member

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    The former sheriff of Knox County TN did not allow his deputies to open carry while off duty. We changed sheriffs a year or so ago and I haven't heard what the new administration policies are. I am not LEO but have acquaintencies who are.
     
  14. gilfo

    gilfo Member

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    Appears that most LEO's perfer not to open carry. Just reassures MY opinion that people who have the choice, carry open just to show off or feel the need to have everyone know they carry a gun. I personally feel it makes people that are anti gun uncomfortable and draws attention to a problem they are trying so hard to solve. We are in the minority as far as acceptance goes so why aggravate the situation.
     
  15. WC145

    WC145 Member

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    Off duty, I carry openly at home, around my property, in the woods, fishing, etc., like franconialocal. The rest of the time I carry concealed, usually with my badge on my belt. However, where I'm going determines how much effort I put into concealment. Generally I carry in a belt or shoulder holster so it's usually just a loose shirt or jacket. Other times, when more discretion is called for, it's a smaller gun on the belt or pocket or ankle carry.

    Personally, I value the element of surprise that comes with keeping a low profile. You give that up with open carry, since a gun hanging on your belt tends to bring uwanted and unecessary attention.
     
  16. Vern Humphrey

    Vern Humphrey Member

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    Police officers in uniform carry openly. And we do not trip over the bodies of dead or unconscious police officers when we walk down the street.
     
  17. Ben86

    Ben86 Member

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    Petty thieves will be intimidated, not hardened criminals. It doesn't scare them a bit. When they see you have a gun they look at it more as gathered intel. I choose not to open carry in public. I do open carry around my house and while hunting, and the range.
     
  18. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    A primary reason that cops carry off-duty and/or after retirement is to defend themselves against retaliation by criminals they've put behind bars in the past.

    Cops' primary job might be to deter crime when they're on duty, but when they're not, priority one is self-defense against the collection of nut jobs who might come after them and exact revenge. The last thing they want to do is stick out in a crowd.

    If you're a civilian, that's usually not your main concern. If you ARE being targeted specifically, then your concerns may be similar to the cops'. If not, then I don't think that the same rules of thumb apply.
     
  19. CorpITGuy

    CorpITGuy Member

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    I'm always shocked when I see so-called "pro-gun" guys bashing open carry.

    Look: tactics aside, it's our right. Period. The constitution says we can keep and bear arms; it doesn't say we have to conceal them. A lot of law enforcement types don't want anyone else open carrying because it takes away from their own perceived power and authority over the rest of us. Some others are just ignorant and think they won't be able to tell the good guys from the bad guys. As a rule, gang bangers are never going to open carry, because they want to go completely undetected. That argument doesn't hold water. Open carry is as much about educating police & civilians as anything else.

    Tactically, is it smart? Anecdotal evidence suggests you're more likely to thwart any would-be attacker from actually committing the crime than you are to be targeted because you're carrying. Given the choice, I'd rather prevent the crime than be forced to use the element of surprise to shoot an attacker. Whatever you want to do is your business. To each his own.

    As for offending folks... look, constitutional rights can be offensive. Free speech is offensive. The right to practice religion freely can be offensive. I don't let that affect whether or not I exercise any of my rights.

    I just wish everyone, gun folks included, would stop imposing their beliefs about what should be "allowed" with regards to guns & ammo.
     
  20. WC145

    WC145 Member

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    Holy cow, take a pill and relax. The OP asked cops if they open carry and why or why not and the LEO's that responded said no because it doesn't make sense tactically. No one said anything about your rights or bashed open carry. You're getting yourself all cranked up over nothing.

    From your response, I'd guess that you're one of those guys that open carries and flaunts it so that EVERYONE around you knows you've got a gun and you're exercising your right to carry. That's fine, your choice, your right, more power to you. Just don't come crying to us when you're the first one some mope shoots while committing a crime because he sees you as the most obvious threat.


    One other thing, I don't need you to educate me by carrying a gun on your hip. You're not teaching me a thing.
     
  21. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator Staff Member

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    i must have missed the bashing part too

    i just relayed my choice and why

    i know that if i walked into a stop-n-rob because i need some money and was surprised to see i guy carrying a gun...i'd shoot him first and then i'd have another gun to use/sell

    petty robbers, as opposed to petty thieves, really don't think far enough ahead to recon before they commit to a course of action
     
  22. Jim K

    Jim K Member.

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    Yesterday, I was sitting at a Denny's counter beside an off duty police officer who was carrying his Glock openly. I knew him and didn't think anything about it, but some other people seemed perturbed. IMHO, open carry is not such a good idea even for a police officer if it causes concern by the general public. Logically, of course, one would think anyone carrying openly is not a bad guy, but fear and emotion trump logic every time.

    I once saw a local deputy confront a man carrying a Colt DS openly, also at a lunch counter. The man pointed out that he was not violating the law (which then banned only concealed carry) but the deputy persisted in his harassment. Finally, the man tired of the game and pulled out a badge identifying him as a state police major. The deputy couldn't get out of the place fast enough.

    Jim
     
  23. Gryffydd

    Gryffydd Member

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    Good point. I heard the other day that Springfield Armory is making a 10mm XDm. Oh, and Ruger is no longer using a transfer bar safety in any of their revolvers. And the .50 AE Desert Eagle is the preferred CCW/Backup gun for cops in Montana.
     
  24. bwsmith2850

    bwsmith2850 Member

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    When I'm off duty I typically carry concealed because I have the option.

    I do it for for 3 main reasons: 1 the Job prefers it. We have a rule that states that we should not OC off duty when the sight of a gun could cause a disturbance. Let's face it, you never know when someone will freak out. 2 I don't like to advertise that I am armed. Let's surprise the BG. 3. I can decide when and how to intervene when off duty and out of town.

    I do OC when hunting or in the woods on the wife's family farm. (Bears in the woods & all) Even our anti-CC WI governor doesn't argue with OC when hunting or on your private land.
     
  25. MT GUNNY

    MT GUNNY Member

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    Quote: Tactically, is it smart? Anecdotal evidence suggests you're more likely to thwart any would-be attacker from actually committing the crime than you are to be targeted because you're carrying. Given the choice, I'd rather prevent the crime than be forced to use the element of surprise to shoot an attacker. Whatever you want to do is your business. To each his own.

    This is Exactly why Police types carry openly while on duty !!

    Quote: The OP asked cops if they open carry and why or why not and the LEO's that responded said no because it doesn't make sense tactically.

    If its true that Tactically its better to carry Concealed, Why do cops on duty carry Openly?

    Look! both side have some Good points on the subject, But it all comes down to what you personally want to do. I do both, Depending on the "weather" Literally! Im not a cop!
     
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