Do any LEOs open carry off duty or when retired?

[Gryffydd]

If its true that Tactically its better to carry Concealed, Why do cops on duty carry Openly?

Because in order for that to make any sense at all, they'd have to not wear uniforms either. Or drive marked cars.
I support Open Carry and I think the whole "you'll get shot first" idea really hasn't panned out in real life, and I think that at the very least a thug will wait 30 seconds for you to leave the convenience store before robbing it...but that argument just doesn't make any sense.

Look! both side have some Good points on the subject, But it all comes down to what you personally want to do.

+1!
Both methods have advantages, both methods have disadvantages. All of which have been hashed out here in countless threads. Choose what you want to do and run with it. Neither one is a disastrous choice.

 

[RetDep310]

Always carried concealed when I was an active LEO and do the same now that I am retired. Never wanted the look of an off-duty cop, so I tried to never wear some of the "tactical wardrobe" used during training or if called out. For me, i just preferred that nobody knows i'm carrying, although many knew I was a deputy. ArmedBear's post pretty much nailed it on the head. Still a few out there that are stilled PO'd at us.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Quote: The OP asked cops if they open carry and why or why not and the LEO's that responded said no because it doesn't make sense tactically.

If its true that Tactically its better to carry Concealed, Why do cops on duty carry Openly?

...because an on-duty officer has soft body armour and a radio to call for help. when you see an officer in uniform, you know that to attack him would be attacking the whole shift...if not the department.

plus most officers on a foot beat would be walking in pairs...at least where i come from

we understand the danger when we put on the uniform and hopefully have the training to deal with what we encounter. our focus is different while on duty...we're looking for the unusual, not distracted by family or errands.

that same training and experience is why most of us do not carry openly when off-duty...i think that is what the OP was asking

 

[Gryffydd]

...because an on-duty officer has soft body armour and a radio to call for help. when you see an officer in uniform, you know that to attack him would be attacking the whole shift...if not the department.

Not to mention that if cops routinely carried concealed while on duty the uniform and the car with the big lights on top would make it pretty obvious that they're carrying regardless of whether the gun is visible or not.

Something else to think about...There are a lot of people in a lot of professions that do not like to do on their own time what they do at work. Point being, police have an additional set of reasons to not open carry while off duty that just don't apply to civilians.

 

[ArmedBear]

Police officers have yet another job: to be a "presence" in the community.

The idea is that, if criminals see marked police cars and uniformed officers carrying guns, radios, tasers, etc., they'll reconsider their criminal plans. Tests have been carried out, and empty police cars have been parked in places with petty crime problems. The rates of these crimes diminished markedly.

So, part of a cop's salary pays for him/her to be SEEN by the public, to act in certain ways, to interact with citizens in a civil manner, while not appearing weak to a potential criminal. That's not the easiest job to do all the time.

Like Gryffydd said, most of us want to take some time off when we have time off. For a uniformed cop, that means not having to be "the police presence" everywhere he/she goes with family and friends. The demeanor required, and the stress that can come with that role, can be draining.

It wouldn't be effective R&R for a cop, to carry a firearm in town openly, any more than to wear a uniform 24/7.

(That's in addition to the "vengeful nut job criminal come back to get the guy who sent him to jail" issue.)

 

[WC145]

ArmedBear is 100% correct. The first tier on the force continuum is "Officer Presence" - the uniform, the gun, etc. That's why uniformed cops "open carry", it goes with the territory. To compare non-police open carry to uniformed officer open carry is apples and oranges. One has to as part of the job and uniform, the other is often just trying to make a statement, there's no benefit to it other than comfort.

 

[9mmepiphany]

...i'll also add that open carry is not the same as presence

if i'm in a store in uniform with my squad car outside, ever a stupid crook will have 2nd thoughts...see example above

a stupid crook won't know a customer is armed until they are already in the store, but if you are carrying openly, it might become readily apparent to them...that's the point where discreet carry give you the ability to recover from the surprise, evaluate the situation (if becoming involved is a good idea) and use the surprise factor to your advantage.

you give up that edge/option if you open carry.

many advocates of open carry see the advantage of display to ward off evil doers and believe that they will still have the option to decide they involvement if they are inadvertently involved in a crime...i refer the thread where folks have said that they would limit their involvement to "drawing and covering" or "only if there was imminate danger to immediate family"

i don't disagree with the first belief, but believe that you'll be deluding yourself if you think you can depend on the 2nd in most cases

 

[Zombie]

I get perturbed when I see an officer open carrying in uniform. I am always trying to figure out what he is carrying to see if it is a threat to me.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I am always trying to figure out what he is carrying to see if it is a threat to me.

it's not the gun that's a threat, it's their lack of ability to hit with it...when they try to shoot your weapon out of your hand, they might hit your carotid artery instead

 

[ArmedBear]

i don't disagree with the first belief, but believe that you'll be deluding yourself if you think you can depend on the 2nd in most cases

That is true.

If you ARE open carrying and a violent crime goes down in your vicinity, you're probably not going to have the option to quietly walk away. So you've pretty much already committed to getting involved, as soon as you step outside your door. That isn't a good thing -- what if said "violent crime" was a bank robbery with three armed perps and no likely deaths? Your getting involved could lead to unnecessary bloodshed including your own (unless you're Bruce Willis and can just kill them all, in which case, have at it).

Going hiking with a holstered gun, going out to an OC dinner for fun or a political statement, or even carrying in a rural small town where guns are commonplace, are different from being a "lone wolf" out walking around the city with a holstered gun all the time.

I don't think there is a one-size-fits-all rule, other than, in a given situation, if something seems like a bad idea, it probably is.

 

[warnerwh]

Being conspicuous is one thing that would bother me open carrying. For years now it has also bothered me that LEOs guns are in the open. What is there to stop some psycho from pulling the gun out of the holster? I've looked at the situation and see they wouldn't have a chance to stop it. That would make me nervous. I'd want a special gun that only I could shoot. Maybe I'm paranoid but I wouldn't want anyone near me if I had a gun in plain site especially if I were LEO.

 

[Gryffydd]

They make these things called retention holsters you know. You can't just yank the gun out. And they're free to bash you over the head while you're trying to get it out.

 

[Joe Demko]

The only times I open carried as a deputy, I was in uniform. The Sheriff had a policy of "don't ever use my badge for anything but my business." No, PA law does not prohibit open carry. No, the LE of PA does not generally know this or act accordingly. Oh HELL no The Sheriff did not want to hear from other agencies about his deputies flaunting guns. One idiot, who was sent to Pittsburgh to guard a hospitalized prisoner, got in a whole world of doo-doo. For reasons of comfort, he changed out of uniform into sweat clothes and then strapped on the old hog leg over them. Whilst the prisoner was anesthetized, he decided to go for a walk. Neither the hospital security nor Pittsburgh PD were overwhelmed by him explaining just who he was. The Sheriff was...not pleased.
I concealed before I was deputized. I concealed out of uniform. Since I gave up the badge, I continue to conceal.

 

[9mmepiphany]

And they're free to bash you over the head while you're trying to get it out.

that's why they issue us metal bashlights...oh umm, flashlights

 

[KenW.]

If you've been a cop for a while you are tired of drawing attention to yourself. None of my buddies carry openly off-duty. Nor do they wear t-shirts emblazoned with cop sayings, or LEO belt buckles or even a basketweave belt.

There are the new guys that wear all that tactical "shoot me first" stuff from 5.11 even off duty. They'll tire of it.

 

[Average Joe]

Yea, On the job every day, nobody said anything to me yet....

 

[Justice5]

I echo many of the same posts above. I don't open carry for these reasons.
1. I don't want to display that I am an officer, for fear of being targeted just for that reason.
2. I like to have the "surprise" advantage if I do need to draw my weapon in a situation.
3. Washington is for the most part considered an Open Carry state, but in my area, it is not done very often. I have responded to calls of a "person with a gun" that happens to just be someone carrying a gun on their hip, and it would be time consuming for me and on duty officers to have to deal with me if I was open carrying. I'm certain I would be getting a visit from one of my buddies if I was open carrying.

I can see the advantage of open carrying, specifically to educate the general public that it's not a crime to do so, and perhaps to even reduce crime by showing the criminals that many of us are in fact armed and ready to protect ourselves. It just doesn't work for me, but I'm not against it either.

 

[mrjohnston]

My uncle is a LEO in a small-ish town, has been on the swat team for years and is the designated marksman. He is also well known in the community. He is one of those that always has a gun or 5 in the truck, becasue he drove his personal vehicle until recently, but I've never seen him open carry off-duty. I'll have to bring up this topic with him next time I'm back home.

 

[huckster]

Seems to me to be pretty situational.... I've lived in a small town in the southwest where open carry was legal, and practiced a lot. A lot of folks around there had honest to gawd reasons to carry that went beyond "protecting themselves from bad guys." I currently live in a small town in the midwest where open carry is also legal, but you never see anyone doing it... folks just aren't used to seeing it here.

I guess my bottom line is... there's nothing inherently "wrong" about open carry, but it should probably be practiced where it's acceptable.

 

[Pappy109]

I still like the element of surprise! You should have seen the look on that fools face when my Glock came out. If he was constipated he sure wasn't anymore....... Just cause I am old don't make me feeble!

 

[Gryffydd]

I guess my bottom line is... there's nothing inherently "wrong" about open carry, but it should probably be practiced where it's acceptable

The problem is that it becomes acceptable by being practiced.

 

[CorpITGuy]

Holy cow, take a pill and relax. The OP asked cops if they open carry and why or why not and the LEO's that responded said no because it doesn't make sense tactically. No one said anything about your rights or bashed open carry. You're getting yourself all cranked up over nothing.

Where'd that come from? I never said anyone *here* was bashing open carry, though now that you mention it, there is some evidence of that.

Just reassures MY opinion that people who have the choice, carry open just to show off or feel the need to have everyone know they carry a gun. I personally feel it makes people that are anti gun uncomfortable and draws attention to a problem they are trying so hard to solve. We are in the minority as far as acceptance goes so why aggravate the situation.

This illustrates the reasoning behind two of my points:
1. OC just want to show off? Yes, that's bashing open carrying citizens who are simply exercising their constitutional rights. It shouldn't matter *why* we're doing it. It's none of your business. Period. End of story.
2. Making anti-gun people feel uncomfortable? Oh dearie, we wouldn't want to do that. And while we're at it, they feel uncomfortable that we own guns at all. Let's just turn them in. Maybe do some sort of cash for clunkers deal...
3. This is exactly why I think open carry is a good thing. People *do* need to be educated. Clearly.

From your response, I'd guess that you're one of those guys that open carries and flaunts it so that EVERYONE around you knows you've got a gun and you're exercising your right to carry.

You'd be wrong. We don't have open carry in Arkansas. Your line of thinking has a lot in common with the gun grabbers, you know... anyone who does X or Y *must* be some sort of nut who is using the constitution to compensate for something.

Just don't come crying to us when you're the first one some mope shoots while committing a crime because he sees you as the most obvious threat.

1. If I'm dead I can't complain, so I don't think you're really concerned about that.
2. Why do police open carry on the job, if it makes so little tactical sense? I doubt there are laws against cops concealed carrying. Those uniforms make no sense, either, if you follow that line of logic. We're getting our police officers murdered by allowing them to wear uniforms. :-/

A right that we do not exercise might as well not exist. If you don't want to OC, that's fine; but, these unsubstantiated accusations about people who do OC (or in my case, don't OC but support others' rights!) are uncalled for.

Cops' primary job might be to deter crime when they're on duty, but when they're not, priority one is self-defense against the collection of nut jobs who might come after them and exact revenge. The last thing they want to do is stick out in a crowd.

If you're a civilian, that's usually not your main concern. If you ARE being targeted specifically, then your concerns may be similar to the cops'. If not, then I don't think that the same rules of thumb apply.

Truer words are rarely spoken.

 

[JellyJar]

Think of this, if you OC and carry a bug would you not make sure the bug was concealed?

I think there is a time and place for both OC and CCW. I think that at present OC is not a good idea in urban areas but probably alright in most rural areas.

 

[fastbolt]

My former agency had a policy that folks working a plainclothes assignment, and off-duty folks who elected to be armed on their own time, had to conceal their weapons. That made it simple.

Given a choice I would always choose to conceal my weapon while off-duty, and now retired, anyway.

Why?

It can attract unwelcome attention I can easily do without when I'm engaged in my own activities.

It's tiresome enough when someone occasionally discovers I'm a retired cop and immediately wants to know if I'm armed, wants to 'see the gun', and starts asking a bunch of questions about why I'd want to be armed, what would I do in whatever situation, have I ever shot anyone, etc., etc..

FWIW, I also don't wear a sign around my neck informing everyone who sees me that I've been involved in the martial arts for 38 years, either.

Neither is anyone's business unless I'm forced to resort to using either for reasonable defense of myself, or an innocent third person, under the circumstances permitted by law.

Yes, I've previously carried an exposed weapon in some back country areas where it was both legal and not an uncommon sight, but it was also appropriate for the circumstances and activities.

 

[bwsmith2850]

As for carring openly on duty. It's the required uniform.

More importantly while working the rules of engagement are rather different than when off. We are required to go seek out the criminals to do that effectively we need to be readily, immediately identifiable as officers to the citizens, each other and the people we're looking for. (It's a legal issue re resisting) We also carry all the equipment to do the job and communicate. In this type of situation the most important consideration re the pistol is speed of access. Remember the pistol is for unexpected attacks. When sent to a gun call we have bigger and better guns that we bring along. It is faster to draw from an exposed jacket-slot type holster than from a concealed pancake or IWB holster.

When off duty and out of town we are encouraged not to intervene by the state unless there is a immediate threat to life. (Really) Even in town the responding officers may not recognize you. in a small Dept, they probably will. (Unless that whole tunnel vision thing kicks in) In a 2000+ member dept, maybe not. The first officer may be from a neighboring dept. Then you have to remember that the rest of the officers are coming to a 'man with gun' call and you are not readily identifiable as an officer. You look just like a man with a gun. Exactly who they are looking for. Can lead to a really bad day.