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Do armed criminals usually fight or run when the intended victim pulls a firearm?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by soonerboomer, Mar 2, 2012.

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  1. soonerboomer

    soonerboomer Member

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    Through news sources I'll hear of people, home owners, shop owners, etc who defend themselves with a firearm. It seems to me, more often than not, that once a firearm is presented in self defense that most criminals run away.
    Anyone have the facts on this? Do armed criminals usually fight or run when their intended victim presents a firearm in self-defense?
     
  2. heeler

    heeler Member

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    Depends on the criminal really.
    I just read a very lengthy thread over at AR15.com in which the criminal at nearly point blank range engaged the armed good guy until the bad guy was out of ammo.
    Good guy was shot up pretty good but did manage to at least wound the bad guy which lead to his arrest after the police followed his blood trail to his hideout.
     
  3. JustinJ

    JustinJ Member

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    Most of the accounts i've read of criminals firing back were as they tried to make their exit such as when when attempting to rob a store. A criminal's number one goal is to not get caught so i think most fight when its needed to make an escape. The NRA has a website full of accounts of citizens using guns to defend themselves and the criminals flee ASAP in the vast majority. Of course thats not a universal rule and one shouldn't count on it.
     
  4. Crusader103

    Crusader103 Member

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    Many years of experience in law enforcement tells me that there is a significant percentage of the criminal population that cares not one bit about whether or not you are armed. Not a majority mind you, but significant enough to be a factor.

    You can attribute it to drugs in many cases, but truly it is simply that the established criminal is used to getting into fights and confrontations. Your pointing a weapon at them is not likely to be their first. They are not like us. They do not consider consequences nor contemplate the implications of losing a life. Criminals generally don't have a lot to live for. Many don't care if they live another day. Even when they do, many are still inclined to call your bluff.

    Many criminals are simply not persuaded, nor intimidated, by the prospect of looking down the business end of a firearm. This is especially true if your firearm is dimunitive in size. It may still be effective in all regards, but it is even less likely to have a persuasive psychological effect on an adversary who is not easily persuaded to begin with. Like it or not, your opponents immediate evaluation of you, including the weapon you possess, dictates the way that they will respond to you. Sometimes it doesn't matter and they stick around anyway.

    I remember chasing down a suspect that had just assaulted another officer and attempted to take his firearm. I caught up to him in an open field and drew down on him. He turned, stared me down, and said, "Shoot...... shoot. I'm not scared," only perhaps not as politely as that. He advanced on me, undeterred by a .40 caliber Glock. As he kept advancing on me another officer snuck up behind him and helped him to the ground.

    That is only to say that, while I would agree that most indeed turn tail and run like the cowards that they are, that is not true in all cases. The number that are willing to stick it out and see what you are made of is significant enough to not be an anomaly.
     
  5. mgkdrgn

    mgkdrgn Member

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    Criminals are by nature cowards, and much prefer to prey on the weak and defenseless.

    When confronted with forceful resistance, esp armed resistance, most will book. Doesn't mean they won't try and get off a cheap shot on the way out though. Don't pull a gun unless you intend to use it, then don't stop using it until the job is done (ie, stop the attack/threat)
     
  6. Loosedhorse

    Loosedhorse member

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    If the answer is run, does that mean I should carry my gun unloaded? ;):D

    Companion question: do most criminals give up or keep trying to kill you when you shoot them? Hey, I'm a fan of idle curiosity: if we're just guessing on a question, the answer for which has no practical significance, well, fine.
     
  7. chhodge69

    chhodge69 Member

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  8. ThorinNNY

    ThorinNNY Member

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    I`d say all bets as to likely behavior are off if the criminal is drunk,on drugs or crazy or often either crazy and drunk or crazy and on drugs or crazy, drunk AND on drugs.
     
  9. Murphy4570

    Murphy4570 Member

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  10. CheckFire

    CheckFire Member

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    Initial response: "Shoot faster!"
    I didn't KNOW if he was gonna run or fight, and I chose not to give him the luxury of making that decision at my peril.

    Jscott--- Useful Assessment and of High Value, Sir!
     
  11. Panzercat

    Panzercat Member

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    Not to contradict your direct experience, but I have to note the anecdote provided has you chasing down the perp first and forcing a confrontation second, all but supporting the op's supposition even as you attempt to provide an example of alternate behavior. You chased the perp into a field- fleeing against your force of arms -until he was in the open and ran out of tactical options. Confronting you was his only choice after running failed.

    "When you surround an army, leave an outlet free. Do not press a desperate foe too hard.”
    ― Sun Tzu

    Applies to 600bc Chinese hordes and modern day criminals alike.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2012
  12. Teachu2

    Teachu2 Member

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    And he was fleeing arrest. Most perps have no desire to shoot it out with cops - it never ends well for them.
     
  13. allaroundhunter

    allaroundhunter Member

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    I forget the exact number, but there have been studies done where a large percentage (over 80% I believe) of criminals said they would completely avoid a target if they knew said target was armed. If the criminal is also armed, most of what I have heard/read is that they also fire their weapon as they are trying to escape....so even if they are fleeing, be prepared to have to fire.

    Criminals do not want to be shot any more than we do, and they make their money by preying on those who cannot defend themselves. They will take the easy money over the visit to the hospital or morgue any day.

    jscott, he did run, but being an LEO you were tasked with chasing him. That changes the scenario completely. He did not want your gun pointed at him at all or to be arrested, that is why he ran in the first place. If it was a civilian that he had the confrontation with, as soon as a firearm came out that guy would have been long gone, and the civilian would not have been legally allowed to follow.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2012
  14. Countryboy7

    Countryboy7 Member

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    Im doing research for a school paper over how gun control is bad and I found that Switzerland is the safest place in the world. That website also told me most households there have a assault rifle and pretty much everybody has Atleast 1 firearm
     
  15. X-Rap

    X-Rap Member

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    There are sociopaths in the criminal element that have no aversion at all to shooting, stabbing or lighting you on fire. I try to prepare for these and if they run instead it's a bonus.
    These people aren't like us and killing and maiming doesn't have an effect on them.
     
  16. allaroundhunter

    allaroundhunter Member

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    This is true, and it is very good reasoning against gun control. It is evidence that is very hard for the Brady Bunch to refute
     
  17. ConstitutionCowboy

    ConstitutionCowboy member

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    Do armed criminals usually fight or run when the intended victim pulls a firearm?

    Yes.

    Woody
     
  18. hermannr

    hermannr Member

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    There has only been one time in the over 40 years I have carried that my carry (OC) may have influenced the outcome. The BG reached into my car and if to grab me and pull me out, but then very quickly thought better of it and ran...

    Was it because he saw my carry? Can't say for sure, but I do know a very baligerant BG changed his mind awful fast. (I never did pull the gun out of the holster...I am of the opinion, if it ever comes out of the holster, it will go bang...and I wasn't quite to that point of fear for my life yet)
     
  19. Countryboy7

    Countryboy7 Member

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    Yes I have a lot of good points against gun control in this paper. But I think it would cause civil war? But my teacher told me I was crazy haha. What do you all think?
     
  20. DHJenkins

    DHJenkins Member

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    It really makes no difference how "most", "some", "a few" or "hardly any" armed criminals react to being drawn down on, because their are always exceptions.

    The golden rule is simple: Never, ever, expect a BG to be impressed, frightened or deterred by your firearm.

    When you draw your weapon, you must do so with the will and intent to use it if necessary; drawing to scare or intimidate is pure folly.
     
  21. hermannr

    hermannr Member

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    There has only been one time in the over 40 years I have carried that my carry (OC) may have influenced the outcome. The BG reached into my car as if to grab me and pull me out, but then very quickly thought better of it and ran...

    Was it because he saw my carry? Can't say for sure, but I do know one very baligerant BG changed his mind awful fast. (I never did pull the gun out of the holster...I am of the opinion, if it ever comes out of the holster, it will go bang...and I wasn't quite to that point of fear for my life yet)
     
  22. SaxonPig

    SaxonPig Member

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    Vast majority of criminals are cowards. From what I see and read crooks run and at best snap a shot or two over the shoulder as they run. I have never heard of a criminal standing his ground in a firefight.
     
  23. Countryboy7

    Countryboy7 Member

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    Around here if someone is stealing out of the barn or something we just shoot one off and they take off running.
     
  24. alsaqr

    alsaqr Member

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    Sometimes they fight, sometimes they run and sometimes they get shot.
     
  25. exbrit49

    exbrit49 Member

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    I was lucky!

    My own experience was that the would be robber ran.
    About 15 years ago I was on an interstate about 11:30 PM one night returning from a business meeting. I had drunk an overabundance of coffee and finally had to make a pit stop at a remote rest area. Two truckers were just leaving the men’s room as I walked in. There was another individual in the restroom, bent over tying a shoelace. I took care of my business, but as I turned round; the guy stood up and said "Got change for a twenty?" My answer was "Sorry, I don’t carry cash." He then asked if I could change a ten". Hairs were standing up on my neck by this time and I stood right where I was and said again " I don’t carry any cash!" The response was “I want money!" at the same time, he pulled a knife. Despite being scared out of my wits I immediately pulled my Charter Arms .357 from my shoulder holster from under my suit jacket.
    It was a standoff for about a second or so, I already had the hammer cocked back and the barrel aimed right at his forehead and I was ready to fire if he moved an inch closer.
    Luckily he screamed M.F. and ran like a bat out of hell for the door.
    I stood there for what seemed an eternity with my heart beating so fast I thought it would pop out of my chest. I gradually calmed down and then had to figure out where he was. I slowly went to the door and opened it and watching very carefully, got back to my car.
    I was able to give the police a good description of the individual and statement about what had happened. I never heard any more, so I assume that he probably wasn’t caught. In discussing this with the police, they said it probably scared the heck out of him and he might be unlikely to try it again. There was no comment about my carrying and my response to the threat. Although nothing was said, it seemed that they were pleased that I had been able to fend off a potential robbery or worse. I have to admit I think I was still shaking 15 minutes later.
    So yes, in this instance, the bad guy stopped and ran. I felt lucky and was thankful for all the hours I have spent on the range and familiarity with firearms. One last thing, at that time I had held a CCW permit for well over 10 years. When I first got that CCW, I remember thinking, if you ever have to pull it in defense, be prepared to use it! I was, and I think that on that night, it showed on my face.
    Not a pleasant experience and one that I would rather not go through again. I was grateful that I didn’t have to pull the trigger but I would have done if needed! It felt good to know that all those hours on the target range had prepared me for whatever I needed to do!
     
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