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Do cheap handguns serve any purpose?

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by monotonous_iterancy, May 28, 2012.

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  1. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Member

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    I don't think it needed fixing. Blacks were the primary focus of the legislation; disarming poor whites was just an added bonus. What you wrote might be accurate now, but I don't want to give the Democrats a pass on the racist origins.
     
  2. David E

    David E Member

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    My apologies, I sometimes am overly blunt when I read a blatantly ignorant comment.

    Please specify the gun companies that target criminals and what marketing methods they use.
     
  3. David E

    David E Member

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    Unfortunately, this is true.
     
  4. firesky101

    firesky101 Member

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    The purpose of cheap guns is to allow any one of any income the right to exercise their constitutional rights. The purpose of most gun control laws is to keep as many people from using their rights as they can. The easiest way to do that is to price your rights into elitism.
     
  5. JERRY

    JERRY Member

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    the same as high priced ccw permit issued at the discresion of elitists.
     
  6. HGUNHNTR

    HGUNHNTR Member

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    I wasn't questioning the basis, just your delivery.
     
  7. HGUNHNTR

    HGUNHNTR Member

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    Waiting to hear the same thing per my earlier question. I can't wait to hear how criminals, by definition, that do not follow the law are being marketed too by gun companies to legally purchase their guns. If not legally purchasing, then the gun company doesn't have much interest in how many of their guns are purchsaed illegally and aren't probably doing much marketing for black market sources.
     
  8. dev_null

    dev_null Member

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    Do "Saturday Night Specials" serve any purpose?

    I wouldn't know. In 50+ years of shooting, I've never seen one.
     
  9. David E

    David E Member

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    Oh, yes you have! At least, as defined by the anti's. You probably even own some. Seriously.
     
  10. wally

    wally Member

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    People who might need to defend themselves but can't afford to buy a "quality" firearm, practice ammo, pay range fees, etc.

    While these are lousy guns for *our* (recreational shooting) purposes, the fact of the matter is the Jennings/Bryco/Davis/etc. cheap pistols are highly reliable single shot firearms with a non-zero probability of multiple shots.

    While we can all agree training and practice is a good thing, but its just not going to happen for poor folk who can barely afford a cheap "junk" gun. Fact of the matter is firearms designers have had 400+ years to perfect the point and click interface to the point guns can be an effective defensive tool even in a hand that has never fired one before -- especially at typical self defense distances.

    So these cheaply made pistols serve the purpose of allowing the less fortunate among us to exercise their Second Amendment rights.

    More often than not, the mere presence of a firearm in the hands of an intended victim sends the bad guys running without shots even being fired.
     
  11. Loosedhorse

    Loosedhorse member

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    "Saturday Night Specials" Serve ONE Important Purpose

    They serve as a "bogey man" allowing some states to pass laws to "protect" consumers froms such shoddily made, poor quality guns by setting up a set of "standards" and/or "tests" to keep the shoddy guns out.

    We have such a "consumer protection" gun law in MA. Here are some of the "poor quality" guns it has helped keep out:
    • All custom handguns (Wilson Combat, Les Baer, SVI, Nighthawk, Ed Brown, etc.) unless the gunsmith agrees to build the gun on a frame you already own.
    • Freedom Arms
    • USFA
    • Colt
    • Kimber
    • Browning
    • Uberti
    • Kel-Tec
    • All AR-15-type handguns
    • Pardini
    • Haemmerli
    • NAA
    • CZ
    • Springfield Armory
    • Magnum Research
    • Rohrbaugh
    • Dan Wesson
    • Boberg
    • Rock River Arms
    There is also a list of manufacturers who have certified a few of their handgun models (or even just one) for sale in MA (but most remain unavailable) like Seecamp, HK, Ruger, Beretta, Kahr, SIG, etc.

    Some handguns which were sold before 10/98 may be brought into the state for resale, but no new guns may be sold (this restriction applie to Glocks, for one). Finally, short "special run" pistols are usually unavailable (commemoratives, historic re-issues like the recent centennial 1911 offerings) as the run is over before the approval process would be done. Finally, all out of state collectible (C&R) old guns may not be bought by a usual buyer through a MA FFL; the buyer must have a C&R FFL himself.

    So, the phrase "Saturday Night Special"--conjuring cheap, "bad" guns that should be illegal--was absolutely necessary to keep all those handguns out of MA.

    Question answered. Close the thread.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2012
  12. monotonous_iterancy

    monotonous_iterancy Member

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    Colt, Ruger, Browning, Uberti, SNS's? What kind of crazy dream world do those legislators live in? I don't think that those companies ever made anything even close to being a true SNS. That's top of the line stuff. It's like calling certain Cadillac models "junkers".
     
  13. Swing

    Swing Member

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    Sure. Those with limited financial means may want the means of defending themselves. As long as they are law-abiding, more power to them. I wouldn't want a cheapie myself, but to each their own.

    .32 Magnum or .32 ACP? I don't believe I've ever seen an autoloader in said chamber, so am just curious. Thanks.
     
  14. Loosedhorse

    Loosedhorse member

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    The dream world of "once I get to write firearms requirements, I get to write them any way I want." Oops. Not a dream: reality.

    "Saturday Night Specials" do not exist. "Assault weapons" do not exist. "Guns favored by criminals" do not exist. These are all simply demonizing terms to attempt to gather support for restricting the RKBA.

    Now, if you want to rephrase your question to, "Do handguns made to meet a specific price-point, and therefore using less expensive materials and less rigorous manufacturing specs than duty-grade handguns, serve a purpose?"--well, I think in that case, the question answers itself.

    Oh, about "legitimate" purposes: that all depends on who gets to say which purposes are legitimate.
     
  15. Snowdog

    Snowdog Member

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    .32 H&R Magnum. The "P" in P380 stood for pistol whereas the "D" in D32 was for their designation for derringer.

    P380 = 5 shot .380acp auto
    D32 = 2 shot .32 H&R magnum

    Reading over my post, I can see how it would appear the description of both as .32 magnum.
     
  16. Swing

    Swing Member

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    Ah, I see. Thanks. :)
     
  17. marsofold

    marsofold Member

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    Only on Saturday nights...
     
  18. kurt1305

    kurt1305 Member

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    I had a Raven Arms .25 when I was a poor college student. It was all I could afford and I was happy to have it. I think I paid less than $100 for it back in the early '80's.
     
  19. Auf Grosser Fahrt

    Auf Grosser Fahrt Member

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    Legitimate purpose for cheap guns?

    Yeah. So people with less money, or little or no money, can own one. For affordable plinking and affordable self-defense.

    I remember a time when all I could afford to buy was a Sterling .22 Auto. And I was happy to have something...anything. Especially anything new.

    Would a company with an inexpensive product market it towards poorer people? Sure. Would they want it in the hands of criminals? No. Would they know there was a increased chance of their product getting used in crimes because of the group it's marketed towards having the higher criminal element? Yeah.
     
  20. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

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    Criminals are to blame for crime. Crime doesn't rise. People decide to commit crimes. War doesn't break out. People decide to fight.

    Oh, I dunno. People who would like to have a little security in a lawless area and can't afford to drop a month's pay for a 1200-dollar pistol?

    The "Saturday Night Special" only exists in the minds of knee-jerk journalists.
     
  21. Deaf Smith

    Deaf Smith Member

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    They do on Saturday night.....

    They may SAVE YOUR LIFE THAT NIGHT.

    Many a person on fixed income can't afford $300 guns and a $100 buck one is about it for them. And a cheep .22 revolver or auto can still save one's life just as good as a $1000 dollar one.

    Deaf
     
  22. Salmoneye

    Salmoneye Member

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    So only rich people have rights under your constitution?
     
  23. larryh1108

    larryh1108 Member

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    Wow, I'm amazed at the ignorance shown in this thread.
    The term Saturday Night Special was coined by the media to describe cheap handguns that were used for, among other things, street crime. It was very common for the term Saturday Night Special used to describe the handgun used to shoot or kill someone in the streets on the nightly news. The Ring-of-Fire handguns were made cheap and sold for cheap. People who could not afford a more expensive gun bought these cheap guns. They ended up in the hands of criminals the same way that guns do today. Now they are called Nines or Fo-tees but the Ravens, Jennings, Brycos and Cobras are still out there. I own my Raven because it is a cool little gun and it is remarkably reliable. Yeah, the slide is made of a cheap alloy but what small caliber guns isn't? Steel is too heavy to be pushed by the .22 or .25 cartridge cheaply.

    Raven25left2.jpg

    Raven25cigs3.jpg
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2012
  24. monotonous_iterancy

    monotonous_iterancy Member

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    No. I don't have a problem with cheap guns, I understand that there's a range of options to fit anyone, including those of low income, or on a tight budget. I was just trying to get some conversation going. I didn't literally mean that it'll blow up in your hand right out of the box, I was exaggerating. I guess my idea of "Saturday Night Special" was compact, small caliber, with an extremely gritty trigger and an action that tends to jam a lot. Keep in mind that I've never actually seen one of these guns, it's just the idea that I had in my head. I was wondering, "If that's true, then why would anyone stake their lives on one of those? Why not save another 50 dollars and buy a used middle of the road gun?" Gun grabbers like the Brady center went on tirades about how they were used in so many crimes, and how easy and accessible they were to the criminally inclined. Not that it had any truth to it, just like their claims about Glocks, hollow-point ammunition and so on, were riddled with falsehood and distortion. I did read somewhere that back in the 70s, that claim had some truth to it, but now criminals tend to use more high dollar firearms that they steal from lawful owners.
     
  25. skt239

    skt239 Member

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    Who do you think they are marketed towards?

    Sounds like your not even old enough to own a gun.
     
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