Discussion in 'Non-Firearm Weapons' started by CDR_Glock, Aug 30, 2010.
Don't buy into all the hype you watch on their site, their advertising practices are another reason why I dislike cold steel.
the important thing to remember is....when theyre making thier videos....they have as many knives as they need....you only have one......so i would advise not jamming it through any car doors or using them as stepping platforms.
on another site, i found an original Carbon V SRK. if you can get ahold of one of these, i think you'll find that it might not quite live up to the hype, but it will come very close.
Nothing hangs with the Busse's, but they are quite a bit more expensive than the Cold Steels.
ps. Knifetests is more like knife destruction than actual testing. Knifetests goes along with CS hype if you ask me.
If we ignore the hyperbole the question becomes one of value. They provide good value in some products and are overpriced for others.
but if its just something cool, you love the way it looks, you really want one.....then buy it, because if you end up not getting the one you want ....and end up getting something your really not into, its not gonna get used anyways.
Some knives are great... some are OK... some are crap.
I was going to the site since I saw a CS Master Tanto. This one that I bought, cost a lot, lot less.
Anyone know much about that model?
It would be nice to see CS go back to making the knives here in the U.S.
I cannot wait to get my Tanto and the Spyderfly Szabofly that I just bought this evening.
Cold Steel sells knives designed and made from all over the place. So "Cold Steel" as a label would be a poor way to determine quality.
Some of them are very good, and some are pretty poor.
You can look into the steel and design of many of the knives.
I have found a couple of their folders to have stronger locks than even many higher quality knives, and the knife to be quite durable.
I primary looked because there is not a lot of manufacturers that make large folders (no blade length limit in my state) with a robust build and a lock that can take hundreds of pounds of force.
I know they are also known for making some good inexpensive entry level swords for actually hitting things with, like at some renaissance events or mock fighting events.
Most cheap swords on the market are for display and will quickly break if you begin to hit things with them.
While those built for actual use typically cost quite a bit more.
One of the only things I disliked is all the hype and weapon orientation of the marketing. I am sure it is responsible for a lot of their business, but it also means if you actually buy any of their items it would be presumed to have been purchased as a weapon in court.
Which for some reason is okay with a gun and when good guys buy guns for weapons, but if you buy a bladed item as a weapon and carry it you are presumed a bad guy in a court of law. It is a double standard but it tends to hold true in court and for jury members.
One of their better folders was the original Rajah. It was extremely durable. Not a blade design really suitable as a weapon, but the durability and lock was extremely rugged. So it was good for chopping tasks. (Of course it is no hatchet.) The new versions of the Rajah looks much cheaper with plastic in important places that once were metal, but may hold up well.
Of course a cheap machete is more durable and much less expensive to replace, so I wouldn't use a folder for the type of heavy work such a blade design is good for on a regular basis.
I have noticed a general cheapening of some of their knives lately.
The above comments on the Kobun, and my own observations on several of former good knives makes this obvious. Many previously great knives are know offered in zytel or plastic, and since the metal handle of a folder offers a lot of the rigidity, the same design in plastic or with a plastic handle would obviously be more prone to warping under high stress, causing even the best of lock to be less durable if the dimensions of the frame change.
Obviously designed of more plastic to meet a lower price point and wider market.
But they still have some good stuff, you just have to avoid the junk.
They also have a large selection of knives that are no better than other inexpensive makers.
Only some of their products are really worth going specifically to them, and sadly they seem to be updating them, including some with great reputations into cheaper models.
I like the large folders with abnormally strong locks because my state has few restrictions on them, while being restrictive on fixed blades requiring them to be openly carried which is not practical or convenient.
I even use folders for some traditional outdoors activities a fixed blade is better for because storage in route is typically concealed in a pack of some sort, which can be technically in felony violation of the law.
So I can be found filleting a fish on the public beach with a folder instead of a fixed blade for example.
Or using a folder as a preparation or eating utensil when bum camping instead of a fixed blade. Because eventually it has to be put away and carried off in a public place.
Zoogster, any real life cases of this happening or are you speaking hypothetically?
The problem with such cases is they are not reported as a guy using self defense getting railroaded, but rather it is a story that someone was attacked with a knife or a mutual combatant used a knife.
Only in the details long after it is news does it come to resemble self-defense.
There is a lot of discretion in how a particular incident is reported, and how the results are viewed.
This is at multiple levels.
Police and detectives are more inclined to give more benefit of the doubt to a self defense shooter (absent other facts that bias them against the shooter) acting in a way they can relate to (and they all carry guns) and write a less biased report in general than a stabber all things equal. They will arrest both typically, but the report can shape perspective in court later.
Users of a blade tend to be viewed more as aggressors or mutual combatants, unless special circumstances show otherwise (like a home invaded, during robbery of business etc.)
Most self defense scenarios are less than perfectly clear to outsiders that were not present, with conflicting stories, and in such situations a bias can seriously hamper the legal outcome.
Jurors, especially those with limited or no experience with violence can understand pulling a trigger or pressing a button out of fear to stop a threat, but are far less able to relate to savagely cutting or stabbing someone in the ways necessary to stop them while grappling.
Shooting till the threat is stopped is much more easily done, while stabbing or cutting until the threat is stopped can result in what seems like a very excessive number of stabs in a courtroom.
Your average person on a jury familiar only with perceptions such as those promoted in movies thinks someone is instantly incapacitated from a stab or shot, or keels over.
With a gun a few more shots gives a rapid in the moment perception, but even though deep stabs or slashes can be just as rapid, the perception is that they are slow and it would take a long time to accumulate a high stab count. This increases the perception that what may have been enough to stop the threat in reality was excessive force.
Several shots is far more likely to seem reasonable than a dozen stab wounds.
In fact with 2-3 deep stabs a second possible, a couple dozen stab wounds while wrestling before they cease being a threat is quite possible. You know how many that sounds like when the prosecutor counts them off one at a time with a pause between each?
Someone can also fire a shot or two and stop, when at range, and assess before continuing if necessary while retaining control in many circumstances. But while in a struggle and using a bladed weapon that pause could easily mean losing the upper hand, being overpowered, being disarmed, seriously injured, or killed.
With a gun you step back and retain the advantage and control, and can then fire more if they continue the assault. With a knife you step back and the attacker regains a much more neutral position if they choose to continue the assault.
So you are at a decided disadvantage after the fact when your actions are being scrutinized as well, or at a disadvantage if in the second go they manage to inflict serious or lethal damage to you after you had previously had the advantage but stopped.
Search for cases where someone is said to have defended themselves with a knife. That is rarely the way the story is told to the public, even if that is what happened. While you will find endless such stories of self defense with a firearm. But you can be sure it is not because of a lack of people utilizing knives as self defense tools. Rather it stems from a very different perception of the users of such tools and how people relate.
The exact same situation where you use a gun in self defense in public and are treated initially as a victim or at least neutrally will often have you seen as the aggressor, mutual combatant, or user of excessive force with a knife.
You will also see a disparity of force defended often if a gun is used against a bigger stronger violent attacker, or against more than one. How often do you hear of a disparity of force if someone pulls a knife on someone unarmed?
You typically don't, the knife puller becomes the bad guy. Instead you would hear about multiple stabbing "victims".
Another part of the equation is perception to witnesses. The user of a knife is actively engaged in moving and attacking, even in defense. You can't wait for an attacker to impale themselves on the knife to stop an attack.
There is multiple slashing and holding techniques, but almost all techniques require actively going for targets on the other's body.
While the user of a gun in self defense is typically not advancing, and is often standing still or retreating or back peddling or hiding behind cover. The bullets close the gap and go for the targets. These movements seem less aggressive after the fact. While the active attack of the knife user gives more of a perception of pursuing the conflict.
The user of a gun can also appear more calm, collected, and responsible during and after self defense. While the knife "attacker" defending themselves is engaged in aggressive high intensity movements that will leave them looking both more violent in the moment, and leave them more exhausted and strained and less composed after wards.
As a result the gun user can be easier to relate to as the good guy, methodically doing everything right. While the knife user looks more violent and savage and random.
The same perception extends even further if the incident is recorded.
Now imagine on top of all that the prosecutor putting in the Cold Steel demonstration video to show the weapon you used...the "weapon" you went out of your way to acquire.
For some reason you get brownie points in society for being disarmed and randomly acquiring an available weapon in a life or death situation. But if you carry one around or brought one, you are seen as someone looking for a problem.
Guns though escape some of this. Even a soccer mom or house wife on the jury can often understand wanting to have a gun in case one of the bigger stronger men in the world poses a threat, and this is increased as concealed handgun permits become more mainstream.
But they certainly won't relate to using a blade to savagely take them down, getting covered in blood, and using various hands on techniques to accomplish it. They just can't relate, and that means you are far more likely to go to prison for it.
I got a Cold Steel folder as a retirement give some fifteen years ago and have put that knife through pure - - - - ! It has stood up to whatever I could dish out. Over the years I have purchased additional models and have found out that some are great - others not so great.
Their advertising is pure hype but also pretty accurate. The Cold Steel knives tend to perform as advertised - as flamboyant as it is. Caveat Emptor is a good rule to follow here.
As carrying a defensive knife for me is a back up to my CCW firearm or something to have if someone pulls a gun in close quarters in a "gun free zone" where I am otherwise unarmed, my knife usage would be in only the most extreme life and death situations. But you do make good points.
I am new to knives and I like the Cold Steel products and their videos, but one of the things that I got out of watching CS videos is how devastating knife attacks and knife wounds could be. Hopefully, a good defense attorney could make use of that info if a law abiding CCW had to shoot a knife wielding felon at the generally accepted 21 feet.
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