Do firearms ever become obsolete?

[RP88]

Just about every gun is obsolete in some way.

Bolt guns went from prime combat weapons to second-ine snipers, thanks to semi-auto rifles emerging.

wheel guns went from cavlary guns to collectors or cheap CCW guns, thanks to semi-auto pistols emerging

big-caliber rifles like the FAL/G3, M14, etc. became designated marksmen rifles that are still being slowly phased out if they havent already, thanks to intermediate-caliber assault rifles.

The shotgun went from being the prime jungle/entry/CQB weapon to being just an entry/specialized munitions shooter, thanks to SMGs

ball rounds are being exchanged for spitzer types in even the smaller-caliber SMGs and pistols.

aluminum and steel alloys are being replaced by plastic-oriented polymers

traditional gas systems are facing a challenge from HKs new piston design

bullpups are coming out more and more, although they still havent shown any edge over the traditional styles

even the current M16s, AKs, etc. are obsolete, given the new designs under testing recently.

but the Winchester 30-30 will still drop a deer. The AK's simplicity is still compared to even the most advanced rifles in terms of efficiency and effectiveness. The 7.62x54R is still around, as is alot of other calibers, and they're still killing alot of people. seeing an M14 in field use isnt uncommon, despite it being 60 years old.

and for the love of God, how long has the Browning .50 been around again?

 

[whosyrdaddy]

Technology will enable non lethal alternatives to become more effective than conventional firearms. This will occur to meet the demand of the European Union. Eventually the use of these non weapons will be required of all members of the United Nations.

The citizens of the United States will demand the use of such non weapons by Police and citizens alike. It will become increasingly difficult to convince a jury that deadly force is reasonable. Conventional firearms will fall out of favor for SD/HD applications. The courts, citing Heller, will rule that conventional firearms are no longer in "common use" and as such are not protected by the 2nd Amendment.

Guns an ammo used for hunting/target shooting will be heavily regulated.

 

[jakemccoy]

Your premise contains a lot of false statements. It's hard to have a meaningful discussion from a false premise.

 

[theotherwaldo]

Obsolete for what function? Hunting deer? Urban self defense? Shooting reluctant recruits in the kidneys to encourage the others? Using a knife to get a pistol that gets you a shotgun that provides you with a rifle? Please define your terms.

Obsolete, in this case, is a probably being used as a technical term referring to tactical situations that change constantly, depending on the battleground, applicable laws, branch of service, and a number of other variables. The M-14 is a good example. It was appropriate for battle in Korea, Europe, and most of the hotspots of the early and mid-1950s. It was inappropriate for the short-range jungle warfare of the 1960s and 1970s, so it was termed "obsolete".
Now, in the long-range mountain-and-desert battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan, the M-14 is in demand again.

Is it still obsolete?

 

[myrockfight]

Apparantly, the 1911 is seeing a good resurgence also - from what I hear anyway. I haven't exactly had to clean sand out of my shorts lately due to any kind of strategic assaults conducted in a sandy eviroment.

 

[sprithitler]

That some weapons become obsolete for common military use is quite apparent, we dont see many musketmen companies anymore.
But which weapons do become totally obsolete? I would say that no (or not many at least) brass cartridge weapons has become obsolete so far. Compare brass cartridge weapons to cars, the oldest brass cartridge weapons are like cars from the forties, a hassle to drive in todays traffic, but quite serviceable for a knowledgeable user. Most older brass cartridge weapons are like sixties or seventies car, not as sleek and easily operated as the best modern cars, but really no hassle to use in everyday traffic either.
What i want to say is that there has been few really big leaps in firearms technology (or automotive technology) in the last onehundred and twenty years (fifty years) and though there have been steady progress it havent been in such a way as to render older designs useless in modern conditions. A disciplined well trained Squad using M1s or even model 1896 Mausers can still stand a chance of defeating or at least seriously harming a suad using the most modern available infantry technology. Quite unlike what a Squad of musketmen would manage to do on the modern battlefield.
A gunman with a Peacemaker is still as much of a threat to a swatforce as a Desperado with a Glock is, unlike a gunman with a fifteenth century one shot blackpowder pistol.
A Garand or a doublebarreled shotgun is still a good homedefense weapon and to most homeinvaders as intimidating (and lethal) as an AR-15 or semi auto Shotgun, unlike a sixteenth century blunderbuss or crossbow.

In conclusion, my opinion is that brasscartridge firearms dont become obsolete, unless everyone starts wearing forcefields that stops every projectile, they have been good enough at least since the introduction of nitrocellulose gunpowder.

 

[everallm]

With firearms, obsolescence is almost exclusively a military usage term and is really about what is on the Table of Equipment and can be supported by the supply chain.

Items can be added or removed dependent upon doctrine or required use, the M14 being a good recent example.

Rendered "obsolete" by the M16. brought back in to supply chain due to doctrinal changes and alteration in specific needs and requirements, will probably be re"obsoleted" again in the next 5 years.

For civilians, the obsolete tag is usually changed to "collectible".....Usually when either parts or ammunition become unavailable in practice.

 

[memphisjim]

why use a gun when they invent laser guns?
because mirrors dont block bullets

 

[Eric F]

Some guns become obsolete due to lack of amunition as a shooter. As a collectors item they carry on. Take the origional spencer rifles for example. With a lack of manufactures rimfire ammo they are worthless as shooters. As a collector item they fetch a decent price. They can be modified to shoot centerfire rounds and regain their usefullness as a shooter again.

 

[FCFC]

There must be a reason why the sword has yet to be fully replaced by the gun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qXlFNYoyQg

 

[NukemJim]

We have robots that we use in warfare. One turned on our own men and killed them all.

Not familiar with the above mentioned incident. Can anyone supply details ?

And please no Skynet/Terminator/SciFi references please.

NukemJim

 

[ranger335v]

"Your premise contains a lot of false statements. It's hard to have a meaningful discussion from a false premise."

Would you perhaps mention one or two of those "false premises?"

Anything can become obsolete, that doesn't mean it's useless and won't work any longer. Obsolete certainly applies to matchlock muskets but one can still kill so I doubt the OP meant that. He was just (correctly) pointing out the progression of materials and technology in firearms.

 

[leadcounsel]

The only thing that will make firearms obsolete against humans will be inexpensive bullet resistant everyday wearable clothing or energy fields or something of that nature where bullets are just ineffective against people - or at least people in scientifically advanced nations anyway.

Think of it in the reverse as to what made armor obsolete - the gun. Well, what will make the gun obsolete. Better armor.

 

[Old Grump]

Much amused at the Indianna Jones clip

Not to sure a bladesman wanting to kill him would have been going through a pretty sword spinning demonstration. He would have rushed him and from that distance by the time Indiana turned around, recognized the danger and drew his gun he would have been chopped into kabobs ready for the spit.

A 30-40 Krag will still put down a deer or a man but was put to pasture by the 1903 which I carried in boot, okay so I am old. The M1 and the 03 both had range in their favor and the 14 had more rounds with a lighter recoiling round but was designed for urban warfare not jungle. Stiff necks and pencil pushers keep the 16 going through many changes and improvements but it should have been replaced while we were still in Nam. I am prejudiced because I was there and no matter how good they make it its still a ..............never mind. My back up deer gun is a single action revolver in 44 magnum, modern technology makes it safe to use and more accurate than my beloved colt 45 SAA.

Its not obsolete until it can't do the job as well as its replacement in my opinion. Keeping in mind that I am a dinosaur predisposed to dance with what I brung to the party. Don't tell me I am not dangerous in the woods with my 45 and M1 Garand to an invading enemy, I don't care what he is armed with. If he isn't in a plane, attack helicopter shooting rockets or in a tank he is in trouble. Lasers won't do it because they can't replace artillery that can shoot over the horizon or through a door. Need to come up with something a lot better than that.

 

[Dookie]

a projectile weapon will not become obsolete. no matter what it shoots, how it shoots it, you still have to be able to hit the target from whatever distance.

And a laser, really? Lets all use a weapon that will cauterize the wound as it creates it, therefore letting the person shot KEEP SHOOTING!!!

 

[theotherwaldo]

The primary function of laser weapons at this point would be to blind or dazzle the target, not burn or perforate it.
A blind rifleman is helpless and probably doomed.
A blind pilot, even more so.

 

[TIMC]

Here is one that is obsolete.
Bulldog pocket pistol in .320 revolver. No ammo to be found. Nice conversation piece but that's about all it can do.

 

[sprithitler]

Still, TIMC if someone start cranking out ammo it is a serviceable short range SD weapon. it isnt techologically Obsolete, just logistically obsolete.

 

[Defensory]

Certain types of firearms most certainly become obsolete.

It's safe to say that the flintlock, matchlock, wheellock etc. are obsolete.

 

[Quiet]

Firearms will be around for a long time.

Man-portable laser weapon systems will not be viable for a long, long, long time.

In the next 10 years, viable vehicle based laser weapon systems may be deployable.

The YAL-1 Airborne Laser is still in the development stage.
The current prototypes (2 made so far) are currently flying and missile intercept testing is to being in 2009.
It carries enough fuel for the megawatt class COIL (Chemical Oxygen Iodine Laser) to fire 20 shots.


Currently, the only successful directed energy weapon is MIRACL (Mid Infrared Advanced Chemicl Laser) based out of White Sands Missile Range in NM. It generated over a megawatt of energy for 70 seconds. In 1997, MIRACL successfull targeted, tracked and disabled an USAF satellite at a distance of 432KM. Data from MIRACL was used to create the COIL, which is being used in the YAL-1.

 

[Vegaslaith]

Think of it in the reverse as to what made armor obsolete - the gun. Well, what will make the gun obsolete. Better armor.

I agree. But then the question would be; What defeats the better armor? And so on...

 

[blackcash88]

I'm confident that firearms will become obsolete once we invent a better battery. Why use a rifle when you can use a frickin' laser that'll cut down your enemy while requiring no ballistics chart?

Yeah, right up until the EMP burst shuts it down.

Surprised nobody's mentioned bows and arrows yet. People still use those all the time, but not normally for self-defense.

 

[blackcash88]

We have robots that we use in warfare. One turned on our own men and killed them all.

I, too, would like to see a link where this happened in the REAL world.

 

[Vaarok]

Lasers wouldn't cauterize. Humans are at least four-fifths water. What happens when you superheat water?

And what happens when you use a gamma or X-ray laser instead of an optic or infrared frequency beam? Microwave pulse?

The ugly part of directed energy weapons is the cover-versus-concealment scale gets radically shifted. Line-of-sight sucks when you can kill whatever you can see.

 

[FourNineFoxtrot]

Several posters have made the point, and I think it's a good one, that obsolescence is a complicated idea... and that there's a difference between "obsolete" and "ineffective". People will continue to use the obsolete until it is no longer effective, and maybe still then.

I suspect that firearms will only be replaced when something truly more advanced comes along, probably something we don't even really know about yet... that is, if firearms are replaced at all.

The idea of a chemical explosive propelled projectile has been around for a very long time, and has undergone many generations of reinvention. Some people seem to think that we've taken this idea as far as it will go. I don't assume that... I think it's possible that new generations of yet more advanced firearms may come about. Granted, most of what is being developed today is just refinement of existing technology, or the synthesis of different technologies (such as polymer frames, modularization of weapons, etc.) but technological advancement tends to follow a kind of ebb and flow; there are times when new advances start popping up, and there are times when it's mostly about refining what exists.

I think we're due for a leap forward. I don't know what it will be, or when it will come, but history indicates its probability.

I also think it's safe to say that guns made in the 20th century are going to be used, and used effectively, throughout much of the 21st. I'm not too worried about my Sig Sauer becoming obsolete in my lifetime. Illegal, perhaps, but not obsolete.