Do firearms ever become obsolete?

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Several posters have made the point, and I think it's a good one, that obsolescence is a complicated idea... and that there's a difference between "obsolete" and "ineffective".

I agree as well. I hesitate to call any weapon truly obsolete. Archaic, perhaps. But a big heavy rock can kill you as dead as the latest wonder gun. It comes down to the needs of the user. What won't work for the military (SxS shotgun) may be just fine for a person interested in home protection. And clearly, a knife is useless over long distances, but up close and personal in skilled hands (21' rule) it can be as deadly as any firearm.
 
Your original question should've been something like...

Will kinetic energy weapons ever be obsolete?

Various models of firearms will become obsolete all the time. But firearms in some shape or form will be around for a very very long time. Someday, the rail gun will replace firearms as the kinetic energy weapon of choice. But not in my lifetime.

Firearms have one trait that makes them valuable in warefare...they don't need batteries or electronics or power to operate. A mechanism that runs entirely off of the projectile propellant is so reliable I don't see the rail gun replacing it any time soon for small arms. For artillery, maybe.
 
Nope.
Just like old fishing equipment don't die, they just smell like they did.

Some stuff "just are" and it ain't the hardware, instead the person having the Software to run the hardware.


Use Enough Cane Pole
 
IMHO guns to become obsolete. However, firearms owners are also often interested in history and keep the obsolete alive.
 
None have bested Mr. Kipling's grasp of the subject----
and if he were writing today, he might have written of the SMLE.


Rudyard Kipling
1865-1936


Brown Bess

In the days of lace-ruffles, perukes and brocade
Brown Bess was a partner whom none could despise -
An out-spoken, flinty-lipped, brazen-faced jade,
With a habit of looking men straight in the eyes -
At Blenheim and Ramillies fops would confess
They were pierced to the heart by the charms of Brown Bess.

Though her sight was not long and her weight was not small,
Yet her actions were winning, her language was clear;
And everyone bowed when she opened the ball
On the arm of some high-gaitered, grim grenadier.
Half Europe admitted the striking success
Of the dances and routs that were given by Brown Bess.

When ruffles were turned into stiff leather stocks,
And people wore pigtails instead of perukes,
Brown Bess never altered her iron-grey locks.
She knew she was valued for more than her looks.
"Oh, powder and patches was always my dress,
And I think I am killing enough," said Brown Bess.

So she followed her red-coats, whatever they did,
From the heights of Quebec to the plains of Assaye,
From Gibraltar to Acre, Cape Town and Madrid,
And nothing about her was changed on the way;
(But most of the Empire which now we possess
Was won through those years by old-fashioned Brown Bess.)

In stubborn retreat or stately advance,
From the Portugal coast to the cork-woods of Spain,
She had puzzled some excellent Marshals of France
Till none of them wanted to meet her again:
But later, near Brussels, Napoleon - no less -
Arranged for a Waterloo ball with Brown Bess.

She had danced till the dawn of that terrible day -
She danced till the dusk of more terrible night,
And before her linked squares his battalions gave way,
And her long fierce quadrilles put his lancers to flight:
And when his gilt carriage drove off in the press,
"I have danced my last dance with the world!" said Brown Bess.

If you go to Museums - there's one in Whitehall -
Where old weapons are shown with their names writ beneath,
You will find her upstanding, her back to the wall,
As stiff as a ramrod, her flint in her teeth.
And if ever we English had reason to bless
Any arm save our mothers', that arm is Brown Bess.
 
I guess if you are talking as weapons/firearms applied to modern warfare then they become obsolete. But for sporting or hunting they are just as effective as anything else if the user is skilled.
 
Horse and carriage;obsolete. Catapult;obsolete.
Well I guess you have never heard of harness racing as the horse pulls a sulky which is stripped down 2 wheel carriage. As for the catapult being obsolete have you ever wondered what throws the clay pigeons for shotgunners to shoot? Though known as traps they are small catapults. So how do you think the firearm will become obsolete? There are other projectiles besides the bullet.
 
For example, in the wide ranging ammunition niche, the brass cartridge rendered cap and ball entirely obsolete.

In the small, concealable defensive handgun niche, the snub nose revolver displaced the derringer. Some would argue that the snub is in turn displaced by the compact 9mm autoloader, but that's a topic of debate, with no clear winner at this time.

In the service rifle niche, the muzzle loader was displaced by the breechloader, which was in turn displaced by the lever, which was then displaced by the bolt, which was then displaced by the autoloader, which was then displaced by the assault rifle.


Wrong. well i believe. if i look back at cars. The breaker point distributor is obsolete. In that its no longer made for new production cars anymore. However its function is not obsolete as millions of cars, trucks, tractors, farm equipment, lawn mowers. Still rely on the breaker point ignition system. Parts are still being made for them as people still own them. So they are not extinct some day that may happen but they are still beins sold today. Obsolete in the fact thay they do not come on new cars yes.

Now lets look at the cap and ball. Obsolete in that they are not made in new production. False. new ones are being and sold at record paces today. Why because in countries where you can not own brass case cartrdige ammo. These are the guns of choice. I my self own several different ones. Obsolete in technology yes and no. My cap and ball revolvers may be single action however they still shoot the same and are actually better in some ways than one would know. IF there where ever a situation where there was a shtf and you needed to do what ever you could for your family and survival. These old musket guns weather cap and ball or flintlock maybe the way to go. thats why more people are discovering our roots in firearms more than ever. Why one you can still make the powder on your own. people have and do it all over the country. 2. Because unlike a modern revolver that is limited to a certain ammo. I can take my black powder cap and ball shoot cap and ball. Or change the cylinder and shoot cartridge style ammo. in a sence i have two guns in one.


So do guns ever become obsolete. I think we have a few. mostly because of ammo. There are some rare guns that even a reloader cant help you with. Most of the ones i know are the rim fire odd size calibers. Other wise where there is a will there is a way. Give a good reloader a book on load data and case sizes and they will find a case they can make work for just about any gun. We have and do it all the time. You just need the will and then find the way.
 
A: Never underestimate your enemy


(1) If an enemy is over rough ground, and you don't have a helicopter, a horse could still take you where you need to go.

(2) As a guerilla weapon, a catapult could effectively deliver all manner of lethal effects, even when an enemy assumes that one possesses no weapons at all.

(or...what cannot one do with a POTATO CANNON?)
 
Simple:

If there are no cars which you can get your hands on, then a horse and carriage is NOT obsolete at all - it gets you from point A to point B more quickly and with more gear than walking.

If there is no artillery which you can get your hands on, then a catapult is NOT obsolete at all - it will kill Al quaeda invaders more effectively than no catapult.

Similarly, if in the future, there are no ray guns which you can get your hands on, then a firearm is NOT obsollete at all - it will kill JBTs, home invaders, and game far more effectively than your bare hands or a spear or a bow.

So, I guess the answer is, "It depends upon how you define the word 'obsolete' ".
 
Someone asks this question about once a month, and I am always amazed at how defensive people get. I think some people are confusing obsolete with irrelevant or nonfunctioning. Muzzle loaders, cap and ball revolvers, black and white tv, horse drawn carriages are obsolete. That doesn't mean they still don't work or fill a niche. It just means newer technology has surpassed them.
 
Well, that's YOUR definition of "obsolete". Dunno if you're right or not. Let's look at Dictionary.com for starters:

1. no longer in general use; fallen into disuse: an obsolete expression.
2. of a discarded or outmoded type; out of date: an obsolete battleship.
3. (of a linguistic form) no longer in use, esp., out of use for at least the past century. Compare archaic.
4. effaced by wearing down or away.
5. Biology. imperfectly developed or rudimentary in comparison with the corresponding character in other individuals, as of the opposite sex or of a related species.
–verb (used with object)
6. to make obsolete by replacing with something newer or better; antiquate: Automation has obsoleted many factory workers.

I guess under that definition, then yes they will probably become obsolete some day. It will be a looooong time, though. I guess I misunderstood the definition of obsolete. I was thinking it meant essentially "useless".
 
I just finished watching The Works - Guns & Ammo on the History Channel. I find it interesting that after all these years, even the latest, greatest weapons the military is testing, still use gunpowder & primers. So no, I don't think they will become obsolete, at least until phasers make their actual appearance.
 
Someone asks this question about once a month, and I am always amazed at how defensive people get.

Don't be amazed. It's extremely common among shooters to get all wrapped around the axle if anything is said that sounds even remotely negative about their pet gun or cartridge. If gun enthusiasts put half the energy into fighting the anti's over things that matter as they do to fighting each other over things that don't, I don't think there'd be a gun law left standing in the whole US.
 
1. Unavailability of ammunition and the inability to make new. Go down to Walmart and ask for ammunition for your Gyrojet. Apart from that, you can MAKE ammunition for almost any conventional cartridge from something else; the question is it economical to do so? "Handbook of Cartridge Conversions" has some things I never would have imagined. Some of them aren't terribly practical, but if you HAVE to shoot it, there's usually a way.

2. Unavailability of essential components. Again, pretty much any non-serial number component can be fabricated, given enough time, effort and expense. Knowing somebody with a small CNC milling machine and or lathe would be a big help. So would having a drawing or an original part. Need 50,000 of something? Let me know; I can have it made in India or China.
 
The ugly part of directed energy weapons is the cover-versus-concealment scale gets radically shifted. Line-of-sight sucks when you can kill whatever you can see.
But I don't have to be able to see you to kill you, with a 40mm grenade launcher, a Gatling gun OR a .450 Maxim gun.

That's why Coast Artillery facilities had 14" rifles AND mortars. It's why they made the 155mm howitzer AND the 175mm gun.

Non-line of sight weapons will NEVER be obsolete.
 
Barring Force feilds that are like the novel "Dune" there will be projectile weapons as a prime source of miltary use. It may very well be that it will be caseless ammo or might be some other type of system, however the brass cases will be still used. Heck, blackpowder is making a comeback..
 
I think that the slugthrower is going to be with us for some time. Gunpowder and chemical propellants are 2 orders of magnitude better at storing and releasing energy than even the best batteries, flywheels, or supercapacitors.

I think that slugthrowers are going to advance in four areas:
-Mechanically articulated smart frames for aiming correction, much like the anti-shake technologies in good camcorders.
-HUD scopes that take into account altitude, pressure, load (obtained from an RFID chip on the scope itself), relative azimuth, range, and wind speed at all points between shooter and target. There was an SBIR from the DOD for this just over a year ago. Most of the responses were "You want to fit all that in a SCOPE? Yeah, right!"
-20mm-40mm grenade projectiles are only going to get smarter and cheaper. I think you're going to start seeing off-axis IR seeking correction of 10+ degrees in grenades within a few years.
-Plasma arc steam propulsion has a few things going for it in battleship and tank size guns. Basically, put a liter or so of water behind a projectile, and zap it with a few million amps (again, need good electrical storage way beyond what we have now), and it flashes to 2000 degree steam and sends your projectile on its way.

In order to move away from slugthrowers, a couple things have to happen.

First, electrical energy storage has to improve drastically. Better batteries, supercapacitors, MEMS flywheel arrays, etc.

Second, emitter efficiency has to increase. Presently, one loses 70-99% of the input power in even the best lasers - particle beams, don't even go there. Miniaturizing a several hundred GeV particle accelerator to handheld size? Give it 300 years or so.

Third, even if you go to railguns or coilguns, it's still a slug, but now you need superconducting rails, shaped plasma commutation so you don't burn out your rails, and/or superconducting magnet windings with high high high M-saturation cores that won't complain (explode) if you put several million webers of field through them.

And finally, slugs are actually nice for a few things that aren't possible for beam weapons to do - they can go up over things (plunging fire, artillery) and explode behind things (smart grenades). They'll be around awhile.
 
Never obsolete, in general, but perhaps redundant to other weapons yet to be developed.
 
Popular Science ran an article about weapons of the future way back in june or july of 2004. One of the questions was wether lasers could be deflected by mirrors or not. I thought to myself "What a silly question, or course not! I was right, although a mirror reflects light energy it can do nothing about heat energy directed at it. All a mirror is is a piece of polished metal behind a sheet of glass. It would simply melt/explode depending on the energy of the laser.
 
Speaking of lasers, I still want a fully functional light saber. Trivia... What's the only thing a light saber cannot cut through?
 
Late.

Hey There :
I know I'm getting back in here kind of late in the game, but.
Been working way too many hours.
Anyway. maybe someone can help me out with this one.

Not sure where I heard this . One of our Robots turned on our own men and if not mistaken killed 16 of our own men. Just where or what happen I'm not real sure. But it was very recent. I'm sure we won't here a lot about it.
And I have no way of proving it.

A rock would never become an obsolete weapon, why then would a gun.
 
"things we haven't thought of yet"

Yeah, at least for lethal tools, in the short term:
* Lasers will require a great deal of power to do anything substantial, so if they are chemical powered (any possible battery, that is) they will not have much benefit over firearms.
* Railguns have little benefit for small arms (as I see it)... their only benefit is muzzle velocity, which could help exterior ballistic performance, but something which corrodes the firing channel like all current high-power railguns do probably won't be conductive to accuracy.
* Microwave band stuff is easy to reflect (metal mesh, ect) and hard to focus (large dishes), as well as having all the problems as lasers.

So I consider some other stuff...

What are the problems with the modern firearm (small arm)?

1) Rate of fire. You can't sweep with it, because you'll probably miss.
2) Hard to hold steady and hit things with.
3) Recoil. (reduces effective rate of fire)
4) Ammo weight
5) Lack of damage. It does not gib people.

#1, #2, and essentially #4 and #5 could fixed by putting some computational power in the standard firearm.
Make it so it recognizes targets, and can be authorized to fire when it is aimed properly... you have fixed number #1 - sweep it over the target while holding down the "authorization switch" ("trigger" would be inaccurate, I think), and it fires at the correct point. The same technology would probably help to some extent with problem #2 as well... especially if ceramic actuators or something were incorporated.
I'd expect this to reduce ammo consumption and actual firing rate, so you could up the cartridge power and still be able to fire more effective shots. Which sounds great for a standard-issue weapon.
This done with more-or-less current technology - cameras, electric primer ignition, small computer systems. Well, maybe give it a decade or two for the computers to get smaller.

But ultimately, it is an incremental advance, probably comparable the differences between the iterations of semiauto weapons.

Micro rockets/Barrel Launched Adaptive Munitions:
Could be guided (have the spotter train a IR laser on the target... long range stuff indeed!)
Giblets!
...but you have some R&D problems... and it isn't really suitable for standard issue, IMO.

So I don't expect anything to happen soon... but I don't know much about this field.
 
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