Do I want a Smith and Wesson Sigma?

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kungfuhippie

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I was looking at the local gun shop Monday. My 1911 jar is full enough to get a pistol.:D:D

I call it the 1911 jar because I originally intended to use it to save for a 1911, but I had a change in heart and the 1911 is on the waiting list while I first get something practical for H.D. I am relying on a 1943 Star Model B 9mm. Those who are familiar with my posts know that it only shoot WWB HP and FMJ and lead well. Other HP ammo is unreliable.

So I tried out a few pistols in my range ($400) and the S&W Sigma felt to me. Do I want to buy this? Meaning do you love or hate yours and why. Make suggestions about other guns if you want in my price range. Don't worry about the CA "safe gun list" I'll make a list and bring it to my gun shop and see what he has and can get. But please no used gun suggestions, I'll look at what the local gun shop has in used guns this weekend, but price and condition vary so I just don't want this thread to drift there.

My requirements:
9mm or .40 S&W
DAO or DA/SA
$400+/- $50
10+ rd capacity (if I move out of state I would like to have a 15+ rd option)

Thanks
 
Sigma's are probably the worse guns S&W has ever made. I would seriously be looking at the new M&P line, everyone I have talked to has loved them and they have been very reliable and they should be in your price range if not a little under. You could also get a new Glock for about $50 more bucks.
 
Don't do it, man!

That thing's a nightmare pistol. Got a trigger heavier than my AK's bolt and twice as rough, jams more often than a Raven .25, it's even lousy as a paperweight. The only thing a Sigma's good for is whacking people, and even then there are better guns for the job. Grab an M&P if you love Smiths. Try an XD, though, you may be surprised. I know I was.
 
Why do you want the Sigma?

If you want a good, inexpensive 9MM, look at police trade in Berettas or S&W 5906s. Just my .02, of course.
 
The Sigmas do have good ergonomics.

Generally I've read the new Sigmas are actually "okay", as in they work well, but all owners tell me their trigger is just gods awful. I concur with the other posters, if you've been this patient, just keep saving away for an M&P or the 1911 you originally wanted. I feel you will be happier in the end.
 
Sigmas around here are $300
Click to expand...
They were $350 and less. depending on which I got. I will look at the M&P line. The place by work where I was looking didn't have any. What's sad is that the Sigma felt much better (in my hand and trigger) than the Ruger did.
 
HAng on....getting clearer...yes....yesss....yessssss

You don't....I can tell...but you can get one anyway


If you liked the SIgma you will LOVE the M&P
 
DON'T BUY A SIGMA!

I have seen SO, SO, SO many newbies to handguns get sucked into the price of the sima. When they get it home and shoot it the first time - their next post is: "How do I lighten the trigger pull."

The gun works, but the trigger is horrendous. U will NOT have fun shooting the center of the bullseye at the range because the heavy trigger will make U move the gun a bit as you try to pull the trigger.

Go buy an FNP ($400) which has the best D/A pull I've felt on a DA/SA gun with an external hammer. Go Buy a Stoeger Cougar - which is a clone of the Beretta Cougar ($300 range). Hell, even go buy a Ruger Semi-auto. Do yourself a favor and skip the sigma.

Or, save $100 more and get a Springfield Mil Spec if U reallyw ant that 1911.
 
Oh, the 1911 would be more of a range gun for me. It's on the list but further down. I don't want to settle for a bottom end 1911 to replace my star as the HD weapon. I will get something else for HD (probably not a Sigma now) and will save up for the 1911 of my choice. I can wait longer to get something, I was just amazed that by throwing pocket change in the jar (and some bills) since April I've saved $450 without trying. I can pitch in some more money but not a whole bunch.

So far I'm seeing;
S&W M&P
Glock
XD
FNP

How about the CZ75?
I'm open to most suggestions.
 
I'll second the M&P. Mine has 1500+ rounds with no issues at all. It's a great gun, So is the Stoeger Cougar. It's not EXACTLY a Beretta clone. Basically, it's a Beretta. Stoeger is a subsidiary, and they just moved all the tooling and machinery to Turkey. $349 for a great gun. It eats everything, and mine has 1000+ rnds through it. like the M&P, no issues. Holsters and mags for the Beretta version work fine (same gun). I have both of these. They split time for my EDC.
 
and now for something completely different...

yes, the sigma has a long, heavy trigger pull. yes, it was a glock rip off. yes, it's less than $400. yes, it's ugly.

these facts, however, do not make a bad gun.

i own and shoot the 9ve, with over 1,000 rounds through mine so far. i have not had a single problem, not one jam, FTF, FTE, nothing. i also own, or have owned, and shot: a glock 19, a colt defender, a hi point .45, an astra 44 magnum, a .38 colt, and just recently got the M&P compact 9mm. i say this just for a point of reference. i've only ever had problems with the defender.

the trigger pull will smooth out over time, if you shoot it regularly. if you have experience shooting revolvers, the trigger really shouldn't be an issue, anyway. the trigger, IMO, also discourages ND.

it originally was just a glock rip off, this is true. but you know what? i shoot better with the sigma than with, say, a G19. the ergo on glocks IMO are terrible, not to mention outdated. the sigma fits my hand quite well, and aims naturally for me. i eventually sold my glock to buy the M&P.

it's not a pretty gun to look at, like a sig or kimber is. but you're not buying a gun for looks, you're buying it to shoot. the sigma does what it's supposed to do: go BANG on demand.

one of the biggest problems with the sigma is not its performance, its ergonomics, or appearance. it's its REPUTATION. unfortunately, many people base their opinions and criticisms of the sigma on their first incarnation, which were total crap. the sigma line was overhauled, and a lot of the initial problems were fixed, except the dreaded trigger. many times, people who bag on the gun have never even fired one; they're just repeating what they've read, or have been told. this is especially true of "glockers" and 1911 lovers. many of these people will tell you that low priced guns, such as kel tec, NAA, cobra arms, and hi point are worthless, that it's better not to have a gun at all than to shoot one them. but not everyone can afford a kimber, or a detonics, or a springfield xd. avoid firearm elitism.

the bottom line is: how does it feel in your hand? can you aim naturally? do the bullets go where you want them? is it reliable? this is what's important, not the opinions of others. if you're looking for inexpensive guns, any one of the brands i mentioned are worth looking into. if you need a gun purely for self defense, then you can easily buy one without having to break the bank.

good luck with whatever you choose.
 
Thanks JAHWARRIOR,
I was wondering about the opinions being based on the first generation vs. 2nd. The trigger was better on the Sigma than on the Ruger P95. I will have to go to the indoor range and rent one (hope they have one) to see if it shoots well for me. I ruled out the Taurus 92 by trying one out and also opted against the Walthers PPK/S and P99 by trying them out. I did like the Sig P226 and the CZ75, and the high power...so I guess I picked a black sheep to get input on. I will go try one first in case I really don't like it. But really the trigger on the display model was smooth and no to heavy. It was longer than I'm used to but a Kahr MP9 that I tried a while back had a longer trigger pull that this and is was not smooth pull effort varied a lot.
 
Don't let others decide for you.

I have 3 sigmas, a 9ve, a 40ve and an older 9mm compact version. Fired several thousand rounds between the three and never had a malfunction of any kind. I have much more expensive guns with better trigger pulls and nicer finishes but none can be said to be more reliable. I trust the Sigmas explicitly which is more than I can say of some of the others. If you feel you need to buy a pistol now for hd and save some money for a 1911 then a Sigma could be a good way to go(gives you a $100+ head start). I have NEVER met a person who OWNS a Sigma which was not dead reliable, not a target shooter but reliable!
 
I had one of each generation, I taded the 1st in on the 2nd since it was supposed to be better. Ok it was a better trigger but the thing shot an 8" group at 5yds. That is pathetic. Got a 642 with the trade in.
 
If you want the most inexpensive, reliable out of the box gun with the best warranty in the industry I'd say why not! Their two free magazine coupon offer really sweetens the deal.

Sure the trigger is heavy with a long reset, making it a poor choice for trying to shoot them all thru the same hole, or playing speed shooting games, but it goes bang every time which is job one for a defensive handgun. Did I mention the great warranty and if you have a problem S&W will fix it with you only being out of pocket your time to box it up and drop it off at the nearest FedEx.

You can easily spend more and get less in a gun for defense.

--wally.
 
My sister won a 9ve two weeks ago at a Gunbash. She asked me (the Gun Guy in the family) to check it out and make sure it worked.

Put 100rnds quickly through it without a glitch. The trigger WAS pretty heavy and crunchy at first, but really smoothed out once I cleaned and lubed it. Still heavy but actually pretty short and smooth.

I would opine that someone who got a new Sigma and worked to actually learn how to shoot it would be a much better shot than someone who can only shoot a 4lb glass rod 1911.

If you can shoot a Sigma well, you can shoot anything you pick up decently. I wouldn't discount them totally until giving one a try.
 
I traded for a newer model sigma 40 recently. Yes the trigger is heavy, but the gun is absolutely reliable with everything I have been able to put thru it. 10-12 yard accuracy for me hovers around 3 inches which is more than acceptable for home defense purposes. It is not a range gun for me, but resides in a safe at the office for those instances it might be necessary. I wouldn't drop $400 on one, but if one came up in the $250-$300 range it is worth considering. I have also picked up used CZ75's and XD's in the $300-$350 range and would consider them superior though.
 
Reliability is near perfect on new Sigmas. Ergos are great, but I would add that the grip is hard plastic and slick with the least bit of lube smeared on it. Smith could make it better by giving it the M&P grippy coating. Another possible hang-up is the blocky shape of it, but it realy doesn't print any worse than the M&P. It just makes it a bit on the homely side. The only reason I switched top the M&P was the full-supported feed ramp and lighter trigger.

If it's a matter of just getting a carry piece, there's nothing wrong with the Sigma. Inexpensive, reliable, durable, and eats anything. Plus what some consider the best Customer Service in the industry. I also seem to remember the 2 free mag offer was extended again. That's 60-80 bucks worth of mags.

I have a Stoeger Cougar. It's a nice gun. I paid $329+ for it on a whim. Completely reliable so far, but I'm still low in the count. DA trigger is about the same as the Sigma, maybe a touch less. SA trigger is crisp and light. I posted a review of it somewhere here. It's also a bit more concealable than the Sigma due to it's slightly shorted length, lower bore-axis, and rounded edges. It's worth a look if you can find one. Ergos are okay. Plus it's all metal. I don't know if the overall wear/tear survivability is as good as the Sigma, though.
 
kungfuhippie,

Seriously man, get a CDNN catalog, then call CDNN and ask about anything that piques your interest. I mean actually call them, on the phone.

2nd generation Glock 19s were going for $339 a couple of months ago.

I have personally purchased an XD40 Tactical for $350, barely used at all.

Yeah I get that whole point that not everyone can afford a brand new XD or whatever, but there are better guns available for that same $350. Go to $400 and your options are even better.

CZ 75, $406 brand new, every day at Academy.
 
I called the local range today and they have a Sigma 9ve to rent. The owner (a real arrogant guy who hates anything that isn't a Sig) told me they have a rental one so you can convince yourself to spend more and buy a Sig.

I think for what I want it might be a good choice. I'll be testing it tomorrow or Friday. I'm not looking for a range gun, I'll be saving for one after I get a defense gun.

I am looking for something that goes bang every time and doesn't complain about what I feed it (FMJ or HP) My Star only likes one brand of HP and only really likes 124 grain bullets. I love my star, it's my skinny 9mm 1911 clone, but it is not reliable, of course it's 64 years old and spent most of that time behind the Iron Curtain so it is reliable for a pistol of that age and condition.
 
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