Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Wolfman Zack, Sep 26, 2022.
and its mine.
White-tail deer and hogs within 100 yards -> 270 better
44 spl can dispatch coyotes -> 223 better
Can stop a charging black bear -> 45-70 better
44 spl an okay choice for home defense -> won’t start an argument, but many rounds better
44 spl borderline cheap enough for plinking -> 38 spl, 22 better
Iron sighted scout rifle / practical rifle set-up -> 308/7mm-08 better
Lightweight walkabout woods or backcountry rifle
only significant weakness is lack of long range options, not an option as a lightweight all weather mountain rifle.
Warrants serious consideration if I could only own one firearm for non-sentimental utilitarian purposes.
Right. What I said was an example to illustrate a point. Lever guns are just as effective as they've always been. The problem is that your opponent is very likely to have a weapon that is more effective.
I sorry but you lack context and situational awareness.
As if I operate from WWI trenches. As if I ride a horse and camp out in a tent for months.
If my lever were to be used for HD/SD it will operate from my suburbia home.
Winchester 94 Trails End .357.
Winchester 94AE 30-30 carbine.
Marlin 1894 CB .38/.357
Marlin 336 30-30
Notice the Marlin 1894 says .38/.357. It cycles .38 Special and .357 Magnum equally and very well. My gun was made when Remington owned Marlin. I bought it new in 2019. It works as it should.
The Winchester 94 in .357 is crazy accurate, but it cannot handle .38 Special. Parts are hard to find for this one.
Both the Marlin 336 and the Winchester 94 30-30’s wear XS sights front and rear. They are both accurate and reliable.
Using your parameters I would pick the Marlin 1894. 10 round magazine. Accurate and fast. I have put around a thousand rounds of .357 and .38 through gun and I have never had a malfunction.
Actually, I would pick a late production Marlin 1894 C. It is a little lighter as it doesn’t have the octagon barrel, though the mag only holds 9.
The 20" barrel gives a decent sight radius and the 360 puts a 180 in the 2000 fps range.
It still isn't a long range gun. But I can stand and empty the mag on a 2/3 ipsc at 200 yards. Aiming at the head equals a solar plexus hit every time.
If I choose something else. It would be 44-40 1873 just because I could pretend to be in the Wild West.
I've been to enough public ranges and watched enough knuckleheads with AR's and AK's to know that weapons are only as effective as those that are using them. Thinking that having a defensive that is as effective as your opponents makes you their equal is naive to say the least. A man who knows how to use a lever action effectively is far more effective than someone with an AR who relies on high capacity magazines and fast reloads.
I never said or implied anything of the sort.
First, I never mentioned AR's. Second, "high" capacity magazines and fast reloads do make a weapon more effective. That's why all modern small arms that are built for combat, (other than those intended for long range use) have those capabilities. Third, why are you comparing someone who is highly competent with their weapon system with someone else who is incompetent with theirs? The fact is, all else being equal, lever actions are less effective combat weapons than semi or full auto actions.
You very much implied that when you stated that it's a problem if your opponent has a weapon that's more effective.
No, you never mentioned AR's specifically, but the implication is definitely there, especially now that you've said "...high" capacity magazines and fast reloads do make a weapon more effective.".
High capacity magazines and fast reloads only matter if 1) One is a poor marksman and tends to miss their target, thus requiring more ammunition 2) One is playing a video game or 3) One really believes that they can fend off hordes bad guys with whatever semi-auto rifle it is you're not talking about and plenty of extra "mags".
Why am I comparing a competent rifleman to an incompetent one? EASY, competence with a firearm that is deemed "less effective" will always trump incompetence with a firearm deemed "more effective". Are you getting it?? It's the Indian, not the arrow.
Re-read the last sentence in my post that you quoted.
Back in the day a lever action repeater was the peak of firearms development and if you had one you had a big advantage over someone with a single shot. Fast forward to today where technology has advanced to give us greater capacity, less recoil, longer range, and capability for optics and lights that make shooting faster and farther quite easy and it's hard to see why someone would prefer a lever gun for self defense.
They do what they've always done as well as they ever have, but weapons have advanced far beyond that, and the bad guys have these weapons too. Not to mention there aren't many options for good training centered around a lever gun.
If I was forced to choose a lever gun to cover all bases it would likely be a 357 magnum.
Earlier someone mentioned a lever gun in .45 Colt. That would be another good choice for all around use IF you reload your own ammo.
I had a Rossi 92 in .45 Colt and I developed some hard hitting and accurate loads for it. I sold the gun as it had a long heavy octagon barrel and I wanted something a little easier to tote around and maneuver. It had a 24” barrel.
And the 92 action is stronger than both the Winchester 94 and Marlin actions.
Shootin' a lever gun low and prone isn't that hard. There's only so low you can go on any gun before the stock isn't on your shoulder anymore and the sights don't line up with your eye.
The real difference in prone shooting a bolt vs. a lever for me is that moving the lever on the downstroke can pull the buttstock off my shoulder if the buttplate is slick. Whereas, cycling a bolt rearward in a bolt gun doesn't create that same issue with a slick buttplate.
The lever, "levering" the gun out of your shoulder, in any position was always annoying and something you just need to deal with.
Then again, just like bolt guns, Ive seen plenty of people pull the gun out of their shoulders to work the actions with the lever guns too. I get the impression sometimes, that's just how a lot of people think its supposed to be done.
Since I didn't have any handguns in 44 mag, but did in 357, that was the deciding factor. Looking back over 30 years of happy times with the Rossi I'm glad I made the choice that I did. It is indeed a do all levergun in my experience.
I look at it this way... 357 Magnum is more powerful in a levergun than most of the levergun calibers that actually won the west. People did a lot back in the day with a lot less. Lots of choices in ammo these days in 357 Magnum, from 125gr to 180gr offerings that are suitable for a levergun.
And here's one of the two same old pics I always post. I'm getting bored with my Rossi 92 pics. I need to take some new photos.
True, the same can be said for just about any firearm type.
For those just starting out, one might have to make do with one gun for a while. Or maybe, someone doesn't want to buy more than one long gun, or handgun, etc.
Which is why my first handgun back in the day was a 6" barreled .357 magnum which I chose for "best" versatility for my money. That revolver was my only plinker, hunter, target shooter, and defense handgun for some time.
Guns sure aren't getting cheaper these days.
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