Do most antis have reasons for being anti?

[LibShooter]

Movement anti-gunners operate on the same intellectual and moral level as Holocaust deniers. Their INTENT is to deceive.

Here's a perfect example of the "frothy at the mouth" language that leaves folks shaking their heads and walking away. Reasonable people know that's just not true and stop listening to anything else you say.

Sara Brady said "We cannot create the communist ideal in America so long as the people are armed and able to resist us". I'm looking for the source right now and will post it when I find it.

I suspect you wont find a credible source for this quote because I suspect Ms. Brady never said it. Even if she really believes such a thing, which is doubtful, she certainly wouldn't say it in public. If she did, it wouldn't be hard to find. It would have made some headlines.

Here's another example of how we've gone to ridiculous extremes to demonize Sara Brady. It's not good enough to have for an "enemy" a misguided lady who took up the gun control cause because her life was devastated by a guy with a pistol. We have to create a mythic amoral Communist bent on dominating America.

 

[Brock Landers]

Well if they didn't have reasons, this thread along with Ted Nugent's TV interview the other day would certainly provide them some in the form of the stereotypical "rabid gun fanatic" quotes and sound bites.

Seriously, guys.. People disagree with you on one issue and they are ignorant, racist, holocaust denying, freedom-hating, anti-America communists? This type of talk strikes me as low-road, pathetic, and harmful to the pro-gun cause.

 

[Nushif]

People disagree with you on one issue and they are ignorant, racist, holocaust denying, freedom-hating, anti-America communists?

Your forgot Democrats and liberals. Also Libyans.

 

[evan price]

I've divided them up into three groups:

1. People who have had some sort of tragedy in their lives relating to firearms. These people have a need to lay blame for the tragedy somewhere. Since people are to be forgiven the guilty party must be the gun. You will see this sort of blame a lot in urban neighborhoods where the youths get involved in pharmaceutical transactions and shoot each other. The family members know that their little child was really a choir singer who delivered books to shut ins and was on the path to get their life back together & were it not for the fact that these GUNS are all over their society their little darling would still be above ground. For example Toby Hoover of Ohio anti-gun fame blames her husband's death by an escaped violent felon during a botched robbery of the hardware store he worked as the fault of the lax attitude towards gun ownership and the number of guns in the world. Also people who have had a suicide, hunting accident, etc will blame the gun instead of their dead loved one.

2. People who have a fear of guns that borders on insanity. The thought of a gun in the hand of anyone but a designated government agent fills them with dread, panic, and hysteria. The gun as an object holds a horror that would be comaprable to seeing the gas chambers at Dachau, the obliettes of medieval France, or the killing fields of the Khmer Rouge. These people will usually base their fear on the "intended purpose is to kill" and the fact that they themselves would not be trusted to own or carry a gun without using it, so everyone must be just as immature.

3. Persons with a definite agenda that requires disarming of the populus. For example most Communists and Socialists who know that an armed populus can never be controlled or destroyed. Big government liberals who want world control. Idealists and big thinkers who believe that use of force should be reserved to the provenance of the ruling elite.

And that's how I see it.

 

[RichBMW]

Seriously, guys.. People disagree with you on one issue and they are ignorant, racist, holocaust denying, freedom-hating, anti-America communists? This type of talk strikes me as low-road, pathetic, and harmful to the pro-gun cause.

I'm with you.

 

[KodiakBeer]

Forget all the psychodrama. Anti's are anti because it's the politically correct position to take. It's the same reason they think global warming is caused by SUV's and that all social problems can be solved by taxing the rich. They're stupid.

 

[Cryogaijin]

Honestly I don't see as much "intent to deceive" as "ignorants spreading ignorance."

Just take a look at the gun laws. . . Banning of .50 rifles? When was one of those ever used in a crime in the US? But they're scarey looking and SHOOT THROUGH SCHOOLS according to the movies. Given how they are portrayed in the movies it is reasonable for people to fear the movie guns.

It all has to do with perception, and how far the general populace is from reality. Lets take a recent blockbuster for example: The Dark Knight. This is an AMAZINGLY popular movie where The Joker declares war against the Gotham city police and the city in general. Throughout the entire movie I was waiting for a HUGE FBI task force with national guard or US Marshalls backup to step in and take over. RL, Gotham would not be ALLOWED to stand alone. This is OBVIOUS.

Yet people ate it up, and loved its "gritty, dark, realistic" overtones compared to other superhero movies. I don't view it as any more realistic than Superman is, tbh. The reactions of the world at large were WRONG, outright. However people in general don't think "how would that play out IRL?" they just let the media stream into their graymatter without any real processing.

 

[Deanimator]

Here's a perfect example of the "frothy at the mouth" language that leaves folks shaking their heads and walking away. Reasonable people know that's just not true and stop listening to anything else you say.

Honest people know it is true.

In FidoNet, one of the biggest anti-gunners in POLITICS, who declared himself "as one with the ACLU", supported RACIALLY differential, warrantless, RAS-less police stops for guns.

In usenet, the ONLY people who ever used racial slurs against me, apart from actual neo-Nazis, were White anti-gunners who didn't like being disobeyed when they handed out the gun control marching orders.

A few years ago, I was in a McDonald's in Lakewood, Ohio. The elderly cleaner there started giving me crap about my NRA ball cap. He went on to declare that the NRA should be "banned". When I noted that the last time organizations started getting banned, we somehow misplaced 6,000,000 Jews, he opined that he "wasn't sure that was such a bad thing".

The history of gun control in North America is the history of violent White supremacism.

Scratch an anti-gunner, find a Klansman.

 

[Deanimator]

Relax. Acknowledge their point of view and go from there, but simply saying "You're lying, you're wrong and I disagree with all you say" is hardly effective. And that's pretty much what's been happening.

I don't "acknowledge" the point of view of NAMBLA, the Aryan Brotherhood, or Gemaa Islamiya. There's no reason for me to indulge the dishonesty and evil of VPC or the Brady organization... and most ESPECIALLY the fifth column of the comatose AHSA.

 

[Deanimator]

Honestly I don't see as much "intent to deceive" as "ignorants spreading ignorance."

Oh, there's very real intent to deceive.

Josh Sugermann himself admitted that it was his INTENT to confuse "assault weapons" and machine guns.

Internet anti-gun zombies are known for the most craven dishonesty, from manufactured "statistics" to altered quotes.

The best way to deal with a liar is to give him EVERY opportunity to PROVE he's a liar.

 

[Deanimator]

Forget all the psychodrama. Anti's are anti because it's the politically correct position to take. It's the same reason they think global warming is caused by SUV's and that all social problems can be solved by taxing the rich. They're stupid.

Certainly the vast majority of the rank and file are ignorant. Some of them are mind numbingly stupid.

But the people at the top are evil con men, just like those at the top of the Holocaust denial industry, or any religious cult. They're the malicious 1% at the top manipulating the 99% of puppets underneath them. The reasonably intelligent in the rank and file have just been brainwashed. Show them FACTS and they can be peeled off. Inevitably, there are dolts who WANT to be deceived. NOTHING can change their minds. They're the type who end up wearing the suicide belts in the Middle East.

As I said, if every other episode of Law & Order pushed the Holocaust denial talking points, and it was taught to children in school, how many people would believe the Zundels and the Metzgers?

 

[Erik M]

I have become absolutely disillusioned with politics since the last election. I used to attend rallys and town hall events. Now I just prefer to invest reasonable amounts of money to 2nd amendment organizations.

Referring to OPs question, the individuals that I have worked with and attended college that I ever discussed the subject with were anti just because it was in line with all of the other subjects that there side of the isle believes in.

I once had a female acquaintance question why i was a gun owner and attending a state university. her thought process was that only criminals have guns, and eventually the cops will take them all away, and that going to college is futile because eventually the liberal government will pay minimum wage workers and check drawers more than a skilled laborer or company executive. Its all one huge ultra-naive herd mentality.

 

[PursesRHolsters]

I have found that most WOMEN are anti- gun because they have never been introduced to them properly. Most of them have never handled a gun or been taught responsible gun ownership by anyone. My dad taught me in baby steps starting when I was 7, as I do with my son now. I think its pretty funny how an very anti- gun woman not only trusts her spouse to protect her and her family with his bare hands, but also that when they are a victim of a crime they are the first to go out and buy one. I say Im gonna protect myself BEFORE I become a victim. I shoot monthly at the range for fun, and hope to never have to use one for protection.
Deleted and just when you think Im being sexist you should know that Im am a 30 yr. old at home mom and a very responsible gun owner.

 

[Deanimator]

I have found that most WOMEN are anti- gun because they have never been introduced to them properly.

Most of the anti-gun women I've talked to were tricked into believing the lie of police "protection".

At Christmas dinner a few years ago, I stunned some female relatives with the following:

1. Police have no legal duty to protect individuals.
2. Police have no legal liability when they fail to protect individuals.
3. Police have virtually no physical ability to protect individuals.

Protect yourself or don't get protected at all.

They actually BELIEVED that not only did the police have a legal duty to "protect" them as individuals, but that in fact, they COULD. I didn't bring up the example of my godsister who was stabbed to death by her boyfriend. The police showed up to draw a chalk outline around her. Not much "protecting" took place.

 

[mopar92]

My opinion is that they are loud, scary, and designed to inflict harm/kill... The reality is that we gun nuts overlook the first two( we like that!!) , and we understand that we can prevent kill/harm to us.

 

[Heretic]

Sorry, but lobbying to ban guns and conspiracy to commit murder are the same thing. The only people who want to ban guns are control freaks and criminals.

 

[rellascout]

So good to see Godwin's Law being invoked. You cannot have an intellectual, logical and reasonable discussion theese days without it.

Not all people who don't want to have anything to do with guns are activists. Many state their aversion, but add that they don't have a problem with me and mine. It's the ones who challence my choice to own/carry/use firearms that I have a problem with. The busybodies who insist on imposing their beliefs on me...whether it's religion, politics, guns...or my preferred flavor of ice cream.

QFT

 

[cavman]

Going back to my NY guy that has now become a Bullseye shooter....

He said that in NY it was what was told to them over and over, and then what eventually became "known". It was only after he left and landed in a State that was not such a stalwart in continuing "thoughts of the evils of gun ownership" that his eyes opened and he started trying the shooting sports.

With so many NYC people moving to other states, along with "liberal" Californians as well, it is up to us, those in the "free" states to...

Take an anti to the range and have them have FUN learning the fundamentals!

Heck, even Supreme Court Justice Scalia took SCJ Kagan skeek shooting last year to my local club.

luke-warm antis know only what they have been told. We need to show them whenever we can that safe handling and gun ownership is possible

 

[Havegunjoe]

Most Anti’s opinions against guns are formed by emotion not facts or experience. “Guns = Bad” end of discussion. That is why it is so hard to talk with them about the subject on a reasonable level.

 

[Vector]

then there is the learned approach( which is more than likely the most common)

There is probably something to what you are thinking. For instance, I know a woman who considers herself a die-hard Democrat. She was raised in a southern family that has a long memory dating back to the days of Mr. Lincoln such as the destruction of their way of life and such ills as carpetbaggers. They call themselves yellow dog Democrats, meaning they would rather vote for a yellow dog if it ran as a Democrat rather than vote for a Republican.
Knowing her beliefs on social issues, one day I decided to prove to her she was actually a Rep at heart, but just raised to believe she was a Dem.
I gave her a litmus test of all the different issues such as freedom of expression, nuclear weapons as a deterrent as well as nuclear power. Of course I touched upon abortion, gun control, affirmative action, homosexual "rights", death penalty, etc. In each and every case she believed in the Rep way of viewing those issues, yet she still believed in voting Dem.

The best I could do was try to convince her to forget about whatever irrational beliefs she had about Reps and understand that the Civil War was over a long time ago. She said at best that she would just not vote, but she could never bring herself to vote Rep. So clearly this is a case of learned behavior just as you allude to regarding guns.

 

[sterling180]

I have found that most WOMEN are anti- gun because they have never been introduced to them properly. Most of them have never handled a gun or been taught responsible gun ownership by anyone. My dad taught me in baby steps starting when I was 7, as I do with my son now.

Yes thats absolutely true about being brought up responsibly around guns&unfortunately in other countries like Great Britain&Australia,there are alot of ignorant&bigoted,liberal,women&girls whom often refer to the hobby of sports-shooting as a male,egotistical sport,which is extensions of their manhoods&there should be no excuses to own a gun.Of course they said far ruder things about us gun owners,(That I wont dare repeat on herewhich of course were aimed at us males&when they finished their sexist remarks,they started by calling us men gun nuts&people who lacked courage,whop couldn't get a girl,so they turned to the gun.It was two women who managed to help to of gotten 850,000 signitures to ban handguns in the UK,following Dunblane&most of them were moms of small kids.
In Cumbria however,it seemed that most people(Including womenaccepted firearms as a way of life&never petitioned for an outright ban on all guns-openly in front of Sky News.
If you want to know what politically, engineered-socialism is all about,by the BBC,then I suggest you watch this.Mike Yardley,a shooting teacher&the big,guy from Arm Britain,who is an acquantaince of mine,didn't stand a chance in this supposidly civilised&rational debate.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dll11jACnYs

 

[BIGGBAY90]

Do most antis have reasons for being anti? YES

Drug dealers,muggers,robbers even kids get hold of guns going to schools---all that people see is that they are getting guns guns guns and all they here is bad bad bad thing happening---what can we expect (i don't blame them(the anti's) until one day there is a national educational program of equal information for safety and responsibilty of gun owner and not just about the bad guy

 

[kingpin008]

No, they don't have a reason. Blaming guns for crimes committed by people with guns is ludicrous. They're letting their emotions override their intellect.

So while I suppose I can understand it, I disagree whole-heartedly that they have an actual reason to be anti-gun.

 

[22-rimfire]

Anti gun people believe that eliminating or strongly controlling guns would make our society more peaceful. Everyone is looking for the easy answer to violence and there is no easy answer. People are essentially animals with a more developed brain.

I think more women are anti-gun than men overall. The male deep down is still conditioned by society to be the king of beasts (mankind). Men overall are more competitive physically than the average woman. Men have a more basic grasp of group sports and competition. All that said, there are many men that are anti-gun.

Many anti-gun people are essentially pacifists. Many of these people deplore violence and consider themselves somewhat intellectual. They feel that having firearms in a civilized society is like a lit fuse and it is often just a matter of how long the fuse is before something happens like somebody going “postal”. Gun owners accept the possibility that somebody might go postal, but they believe that the right (freedom) is worth the cost to society and that even if guns were strictly controlled, it would not prevent someone going postal anyway. It is a mental problem not a firearm problem. The gun is the tool.

Effective elimination of private ownership of firearms in US society may ultimately save some lives. But the cost is too great in terms of individual freedom and could cause just the opposite. Those hell bent on committing violence against another man would simply find another way to commit their violence. All you have to do is look at Great Britain and Australia and their gun control measures while claiming they are a free society. Anti-gun people would say that it takes these leaps of government control to take society to the next level. I’m not so sure as humans are basically animals and animals compete and fight. It is all about power. Power is to control the lives of the sheeple and use them to advance your agenda.

Then there is the government tyranny aspect of ultimate use of firearms in the US. Guns provide a balance to US society that does not exist in most countries. Obviously a citizen reprisal to government tyranny would be costly, but it always exists. It is happening in many African countries as well as the Middle East. Even during the American Revolution for independence from Great Britain, I read that only about 50% supported independence and probably less supported it at the early stages of what became the revolution.

 

[TexasBill]

Good luck with that. I know a lot of people blame "left-wing" media and it's true there is a measure of that, but the fact is that, like sex, violence sells. Most media journalism, especially at the local level, is mired in lurid reporting. As Don Henley said in the song, "We love dirty laundry."

If there are no murders, a bloody traffic accident will take the lead at the top of the newscast. One famous person gives a million dollars to a charity for crippled orphans; another cheats on his wife. Guess who's the headliner? The good guy gets mentioned only if there's time left over for some "filler."

Besides, it requires some extra effort to promote gun safety and it's easy to portray guns and the people who use them in a bad light. Even hunters; I remember when Florida had a severe problem with deer overpopulation and wanted to expand the hunting season. Cleveland Amory made a big deal about it and how the Fund for Animals was going to "save" the deer. The expanded hunt was canceled, Amory and his gang made less than a half-dozen rescues and thousands of deer starved to death. But you didn't see that last part on the evening news.