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Do muzzle brakes make a gun more accurate?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by gvnwst, Feb 27, 2009.

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  1. gvnwst

    gvnwst Member

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    This thought hit me this morning when i was thinking about muzzle attachments; because gunpowder burns in a barrel/chamber at almost 5 o 6k fps, when it comes out of the muzzle, it is going a lot faster than the bullet. And because it does not burn the same way every time, there are going to be inconsistancies in the "cloud" i thinik, correct? basically, if you have that cloud partially exploding around the bullet, does this effect accuracy in any way? It would seem that if that is correct, then having a muzzle brake would make a fiream more accurate, as it would a large portion of the "cloud" from touching the bullet. Seems suppressors would do the same, if not better. Does this make any sense? (if not, sorry, i am really tired...:uhoh:)

    Has anyone experianced this, you had a rifle that you put a brake on, and your groups got even a bit better? But then i see a lot of match guns with 'target crowns", what do these do exactly?

    thanks.
     
  2. General Geoff

    General Geoff Member

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    The cloud of hot gases expanding around the projectile after exiting the muzzle has a negligible effect on the path of the bullet due to lack of pressure.
     
  3. Grassman

    Grassman Member

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    I just put a muzzle brake on my SKS, we will see.
     
  4. Duke of Doubt

    Duke of Doubt member

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    Negligible. Waving at the bullet would affect it about as much.
     
  5. average_shooter

    average_shooter Member

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    The crown ensures that the "cloud" you refer to expands at even rates all the way around the projectile. Target crowns are precisely machined.

    Put a ding in the muzzle (crown) of a rifle and the gases will exit the barrel sooner at that point then elsewhere around the bullet. This can cause the bullet to get pushed in a different direction. This is also why you should exercise care when cleaning from the muzzle so the rod doesn't screw up the crown.

    At least, this is my understanding of it.
     
  6. Onmilo

    Onmilo Member

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    Muzzle brakes make a rifle more controllable on rapid fire and in doing so can make the rifle more accurate in rapid fire.
    A muzzle brake will not neccessarily affect acccuracy to the positive in slow fire, it will just make the weapon more distracting to people shooting to the sides of the weapon.

    A target crown is a fairly deep recess at the muzzle that is designed to protect the chamfered edge of the muzzle from dents and dings that can affect the bullet flight as the bullet exits the muzzle.

    I can best describe a target crown as a counterbore with an outer and inner chamfered edge.
     
  7. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    The crown is important to the attitude of the bullet the instant it leaves the muzzle. This is also why bullet base defects have a lot more influence on accuracy than tip defects.

    You don't see muzzle brakes in bench-rest or NRA long-range matches because they are prohibited by the rules. For bench-rest, this means the best free-market laboratory in which to test accuracy has been eliminated

    My experience is that muzzle brakes have a negligible effect on accuracy. They typically increase the shooter's accuracy due to physical and psychological factors.

    The same types of arguments you made about brakes have been made about suppressors (silencers), since the bullet exits into a static environment. However, my experience is the same: not sure if weapon accuracy changes, but shooters are typically more accurate shooting suppressed.
     
  8. moooose102

    moooose102 Member

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    i have a mb on one of my rifles. the mb itself had little if any affect on accuracy. my shoulder sincerly appreciated it though. if i were a flincher, it might have made an improvement though. but not a direct physical / mechanical difference.
     
  9. gvnwst

    gvnwst Member

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    Okay, those awnsers are understandable. I guess the taarget crown does sorta the same thing i thought the MB would (control the gases) thanks for explaining that!
     
  10. beatcop

    beatcop Member

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    The Browning Boss was tunable and had an affect on accuracy, when adjusted, so I suspect that there's more to this. The Boss may have had more of a role in tuning the barrel harmonics than the actual gas dispersion, so the answer still may be no.
     
  11. owlhoot

    owlhoot Member

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    A muzzle brake, flash hider, etc will definitely improve accuracy for any older Ruger Mini 14. the reason is because the Mini barrel is light and whippy and the weight of the brake/flash hider helps attenuate the whippiness of the barrel.
     
  12. jlg

    jlg Member

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    lol "whippiness"...sorry that just sounds funny.

    The psychological effect of a mb or suppressor will help most people shoot better...it does me. I don't care much for recoil and when I don't have to worry about being mule kicked in the shoulder when I pull the trigger I can concentrate more on the shot and less on "don't flinch...don't flinch...don't flinch..."

    I have heard that suppressors generally tighten up groups...although I'm not a good enough shot to confirm that.
     
  13. Sunray

    Sunray Member

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    No. A muzzle brake does nothing but redirect the gases to reduce muzzle jump and the felt recoil. If a rifle isn't accurate already, a brake, like a telescopic sight, won't make it shoot any better. Neither will a supressor.
     
  14. m00t

    m00t Member

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    Muzzle brakes tend to effect a change in the accuracy of a rifle by affecting the harmonics of the barrel, moreso than by evenly distributing the gas cloud during the bullet's exit - that's pretty much what both the crown and compensators do. Thin and light barrels will see more of an effect overall because the greater amplitude of the inherent barrel wobble will be reduced more by the large mass on the end. Even if it doesn't align the wavelength perfectly, which it likely won't (unless painstakingly adjusted), the amplitude of the barrel whip will be reduced. Now then, if you had a very heavy, very rigid barrel, a perfect crown, and a bad compensator, you'd likely see a decrease in accuracy from the comp alone.

    Spiffy!
     
  15. Geneseo1911

    Geneseo1911 Member

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    I just want to jump in here and say, "Thank You!" for correctly using "muzzle brake", and not "break". Ohh that drives me nuts. I will resist buying stuff from people who cannot distinguish "break" and "brake".
    [/RANT]
    sorry, carry on
     
  16. jwr747

    jwr747 Member

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    for my K-31's,I have the screw on brake,of the 3 K-31's,the brake does increase accuracy in one of them.I also have the screw on dampener which increases accuracy on all three.so from my small test.a brake affecting accuracy is a crap shoot. jwr
     
  17. gvnwst

    gvnwst Member

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    You are very welcome.:D

    jwr747--are you sure that it is not just the gun recoiling less, and allowing you to be more accurate? Either way, that is cool.

    What exactly do barrel tuners do, i have seen some on BR .22lrs and other target rifles...?
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2009
  18. taliv

    taliv Moderator

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    i'm not following you here...

    how exactly do you think the muzzle brake affect harmonics?

    are you saying the crown and compensators work by affecting harmonics or distributing gas?
     
  19. rfwobbly

    rfwobbly Member

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    If by "gun" you mean a pistol, then NO unless you have your rounds loaded way on up there.

    If by "gun" you mean a rifle, then I'll stick by this previous reply.....

     
  20. Hk91-762mm

    Hk91-762mm Member

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    The US M-14 National match rifles have the flash hider bored out to a larger diameter to lessen effect on accuracy.
    Personal experinace -Sweed M-44 6.5 X55 with the threaded barrell For the blank fire device - I bought a flash suppressof that is after market For the rifle --It really hurt accuracy..
     
  21. TimRB

    TimRB Member

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    "The US M-14 National match rifles have the flash hider bored out to a larger diameter to lessen effect on accuracy."

    The National Match M14 flash suppressors are bored out because they found that the standard ones sometimes fit so poorly that the bullet contacted it on the way out. The boring is not an attempt to lessen the effects of the suppressor per se.

    Tim
     
  22. m00t

    m00t Member

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    From my understanding, the crown and compensators affect accuracy by influencing the way the gas interacts with the round exiting from the barrel. The crown works by controlling the exiting gases in a way to insure that there are no spots where the gas exits in advance of the rest, which would create a region of high pressure to one side of the round. Compensators should work to the same effect, venting the gases directly away from the round in a controlled manner as the round passes the compensator vents. Ideally, no gas would pass the bullet when a compensator is used, but usually this is not the case as they tend to be slightly larger than the diameter of the bore, so most often the accuracy of a compensated rifle comes from the crown anyway.

    As far as compensators affecting the harmonics of the barrel goes, any time a weight is added or removed from the barrel (or a pressure point is applied), the vibrational wavelength that the barrel undergoes when firing a round is changed, as is the amplitude to which the vibration occurs. Ideally, to tune a barrel, you want the crown of the barrel to be at a node in the vibration that occurs, so that the rest of the barrel (except other nodes) is moving in space, but the crown remains at a constant position. Since a compensator is essentially just a weight added to the end of the barrel, the position of the crown stays the same, but the wavelength of the oscillations changes, as does the location of the nodes. A crown doesn't have any effect on barrel harmonics, unless you change its location or have to remove a significant amount of material in order to create it.

    [​IMG]
     
  23. taliv

    taliv Moderator

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    np, i think i just misread your post

    but given a barrel/ammo combination there's no way to know the node w/o testing, so putting the break on is as likely to hurt as help.
     
  24. Hans Esker

    Hans Esker Member

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    Quote from mOOt:
    By weight he means mass, BTW.
    By adding mass, the amplitude is reduced.
     
  25. benEzra

    benEzra Moderator Emeritus

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    I think the answer may be "it depends."

    Some types of brakes can hurt accuracy. The AK slant brake, for example, makes the bullet fly through a several-thousand-mph crosswind immediately after exiting the rifling, and the resulting nutation opens up group size, particularly with hollow-base bullets often seen in eastern European FMJ.

    On the other hand, the Smith Enterprises Vortex is commonly said to improve accuracy slightly, presumably by creating a smoother and less turbulent flowfield as the bullet exits the muzzle.

    A ported barrel could have some theoretical advantages by bleeding off pressure behind the bullet while the bullet is still in the rifling, but the ports could also shave material off the bullet and make it dynamically or aerodynamically unbalanced, so it could depend on port design.

    For most rifles, the difference between a good crown and a good muzzle brake is probably negligible. A good brake might improve accuracy on a rifle with an asymmetrical crown, and a bad brake can hurt accuracy on most anything.
     
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