Do Not Shoot Lead Bullets Through any Glock Handgun See Below

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by sparrow75, Feb 9, 2019.

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  1. sparrow75

    sparrow75 Member

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    https://blog.thegunsandgearstore.com/polygonal-rifling-in-glocks-why-it-matters/

    Don’t Shoot Lead Bullets through Glocks (Polygonal Rifling) – FACT
    Lead bullets can foul polygonal rifling very fast and create an obstruction before you finish shooting an entire magazine in some cases. When people talk about catastrophic failures, this would be it!

    Don’t Shoot Reloads through Polygonal Rifling – FICTION
    You can shoot reloads safely through polygonal rifling, but it needs to be Full-Metal Jacket (FMJ), Total-Metal Jacket (TMJ), or simply Jacketed rounds. This will prevent dangerous fouling, and then the rifling will work for you like it’s meant to do: higher velocities, more accuracy, and greater longevity.

    Glock is the only company that uses polygonal rifling – FICTION
    There are several firearm companies on the market utilizing this style of rifling:Glock, Heckler & Koch, Kahr Arms, Magnum Research, Tanfoglio, and CZ.
     
  2. mdi

    mdi Member

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    I'd like to see this statement and the replies at the cast bullets forum. Many Glock owners shoot cast lead through their poly barrels, safely and quite successfully... http://castboolits.gunloads.com/
     
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  3. murf

    murf Member

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    your whole post is fiction without references or empirical evidence to support your claims (blogs don't count). I shoot lead through my stock glock barrels all the time (the mdi reference is a good one). and after a few hundred rounds through the pipe, I clean out the lead buildup.

    no need for scare tactics here, common sense works just fine.

    glock says no to lead and reloads, but most companies say the same thing. maybe this is why your blogger is saying this.

    murf
     
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  4. Galil5.56

    Galil5.56 Member

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    Well, I run 93 grain LRN bullets through my CZ 82 in 9x18, driven to about 1100 fps with no issues at all... Why would I?... Sizing/alloy/lube to suit, and accuracy is amazing. Barrels mirror bright bore stays mirror bright, and in fact it is the most tolerant to lead fouling, of any firearm I own.

    BTW, add Bersa to the list of Poly handgun barrels - Their Thunder 9 series had poly barrels, maybe they still do.
     
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  5. Texas10mm

    Texas10mm member

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    Damn, there's a lot of opinion in that blog and not much fact. I found his assertion that more bearing surface, also called drag, increases velocity and accuracy. Someone needs to let the benchrest guys in on that secret.
     
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  6. RedlegRick

    RedlegRick Member

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    Huh. I sent at least a thousand or more 125g lead conicals through mine with no ill effects other than some lead removal later, but it handled them all well and my barrel didn't suffer any.
     
  7. Odd Job

    Odd Job Moderator Staff Member

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    If I remember correctly, JohnKSa had a good thread on lead vs the various rifling patterns. I'll see if I can locate it.
     
  8. sparrow75

    sparrow75 Member

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  9. ess45

    ess45 Member

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    I've shoot thousands of uncoated lead bullets thru my Glock 22 and HK USP 45.
     
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  10. Chuck R.

    Chuck R. Member

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    Not a Glock, but I do shoot lead through HKs....same rifling.

    Just don't let the lead build up, really a "non-issue".
     
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  11. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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    Time to make the Popcorn!

    anigif_enhanced-buzz-20353-1366913379-3.gif
     
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  12. IMtheNRA

    IMtheNRA Member

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    Am I the only one who remembers what Gale McMillan wrote on this topic at the old Firing Line?
     
  13. murf

    murf Member

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    no apology necessary. we all learn from things like this.

    murf
     
  14. Obturation
    • Contributing Member

    Obturation Contributing Member

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    This is such old news i dont think its worth a mention.
     
  15. Drail

    Drail Member

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    The "problem" with polygonal rifling is not lead bullets - it's people that are too lazy or believe it's not important to keep their bore free of lead buildup. I shot on a pistol team for years with a guy who shot a SA Omega 1911 with a top end in .45 ACP. It's built by Peters-Stahl of Germany and the barrel is polygonal. He must have put 20,000 rounds minimum through that pistol of NOTHING BUT lead bullets over the years I shot with him. It never blew up because he is a former Marine and knows what a clean bore should look like. At that time none of us had ever heard the warning about "do not use lead bullets in a Glock". You can also add to your list of companies who use polygonal rifling - S&W. Every revolver barrel they've produced since 1996 is polygonal in the sense that they are not 90 degree cut lands and grooves. As far as I know they've never issued a warning about lead bullets. Lead deposits can build up in any kind of rifled barrel. You just have to clean it out.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2019
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  16. Jesse Heywood

    Jesse Heywood Member

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    We all make mistakes, the secret is manning up when you make one. I'm saving my annual mistake for this fall. :D

    I have fired about 1,000 rounds of lead through my Kahr. For your penance I will suggest you visit the Missouri Bullet website and order a couple of boxes of the Hy-Tek coated bullets. :thumbup:
     
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  17. Texas10mm

    Texas10mm member

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    Again, more fail. http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm

    Try reading that and get back it us. It's not the hardness of the lead. It's the fit. Almost all commercial cast pistol bullets are way too hard for their intended application. Same goes for the lube they use. The reason they cast them so hard and use such a hard lube is so they have no damage during shipping.
     
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  18. Salmoneye

    Salmoneye Member

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    I fired thousands of cast bullets (remanufactured & reloads) through a G19 back in the early 90's before the interwebs told me that I was going to blow up...

    Saw less lead in that barrel than I did in many other 'traditional' rifling barrels I have seen over the decades...
     
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  19. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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    But which Kahr,? Some are polygon some are not. Regardless, many many folks have shot lead through the polygon barrels and have no issue. I have even read where polygon barresl lead up less than traditional rifling. As mentioned it all depends on harness, size, lube and the Phase of the Moon.:)
    But then we also read posts of people saying the get leading in traditional barrels using Hy TeK bullets, The internet is great!:uhoh:
     
  20. Lennyjoe

    Lennyjoe Member

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    What if they’re moly coated? <sarcasm>
     
  21. Demi-human

    Demi-human Member

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    The reason for the warning against bare lead bullets in a Desert Eagle is the piston gas system, not the rifling. Or more specifically, the gas port, and its position in the barrel.

    Lead vaporized during combustion, as well as any shaved off the bullet by the gas port during upset, travels down the(permanent) gas tube and cools in the turn back to the expansion chamber. Lead buildup in this raceway would be like turning off an AR's gas block. And it is so difficult to clean out a new barrel is not uncommon.

    XTPs and Deep Curls are amazing!
    I have yet to try coated bullets in mine as the Berry's are very satisfactory. I would have to cast and coat my own. Unless I have missed one, the fifty caliber coated bullets are all too long for the Eagle...:(
     
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  22. Galil5.56

    Galil5.56 Member

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    This was a big reason why I never bought an H&K P7, because of its system using ported gas to retard blowback. Maybe folks who have used cast in their P7 can report if that was/is nonsense.

    Never have used cast bullets in my M1 carbine either, gas checked or otherwise, but have read of many people who do and they report no issues. Close as I come to lead in my M1 carbine, are Hornady 100 grain SJ bullets... Kinda like an XL gas check, that also makes up the bearing area too. They shoot great, are plenty accurate, and talk about explosive terminal effect - Get whacked with one of these at 2100 fps, and it ain't gonna be pretty.

    20190209_195319.jpg
     
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  23. glc24
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    glc24 Contributing Member

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    I don't shoot lead through my G23, only because I don't reload cast bullets! I've read in so many places about the key to keeping problems at bay, is as simple as keeping your firearms clean which I do religiously!:)
     
  24. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    Actually, there's been some changes regarding Glock barrels.

    Gen 5 Glock 17s now have GMB (Glock Marksman Barrel) with additional ridges along each hexagonal rifling - https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2017/9/1/preview-glock-gen5-pistols/

    Here are close up pictures - https://www.glocktalk.com/threads/gen-5-barrel-rifling.1686073/

    Not really. There's the issue of leading and accuracy of shooting lead bullets in Glock barrels - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/cast-bullets-in-a-glock.750685/#post-9451186

    Disclaimer: Like many other pistol manufacturers, Glock does not recommend shooting reloads (including lead reloads), so use reloads in your Glocks at your own risk.

    Now that we got the disclaimer out of the way, can you shoot reloads in your Glocks, including lead reloads? I can't speak for other Glock shooters, but I have for about 25 years now (including lead reloads) with some consideration. BTW, what do countless Glock match shooters (including factory Glock team) use for match shooting week after week all around the world? You got it, reloads. ;)

    As to shooting lead reloads in Glock barrels, there are several more considerations. These are considerations for shooting lead bullets in any barrel:
    - Commercial lead bullets come in different hardness ranging from softer 10 BHN to harder 24 BHN.
    - Lead bullets come sized .001" larger than jacketed bullets and can be obtained sized .002"+ larger.
    - Proper hardness/bullet to barrel fit/sufficient powder charge need to be used to properly deform the bullet base to seal the high pressure gas as gas leakage/gas cutting leads to increased leading.

    Glock barrel showing smooth hexagonal rounded rifling.

    [​IMG]

    Glock barrel showing smooth gradual start of rifling with longer leade

    [​IMG]

    There are issues specific to Glock barrels (see picture above):
    - Glock barrels have longer leade (space the bullet jumps from the case neck/chamber to the start of rifling) which increases high pressure gas leakage.
    - Glock barrels have very smooth start of rifling with rounded rifling which allow the lead bullet to slide deeper into the barrel before sufficient chamber pressure starts to develop which further increase high pressure gas leakage.

    These Glock barrel features allow more high pressure gas leakage around the bullet which results in more of the following:
    - High pressure gas leakage around the bullet blows liquefied lube from the bullet and down the barrel which may increase fouling/leading build up, especially near the chamber end of the barrel.
    - If high enough powder charge is not used, powder burn may be inefficient and insufficient/inconsistent chamber pressures may not deform the bullet base to allow the bullet to "skid" down the barrel and increase fouling/leading build up.

    Unless you use the proper hardness/sizing of lead bullet for the powder/charge used that produce sufficient chamber pressures to minimize fouling/leading build up, it is a good idea to inspect the Glock barrel more frequently for fouling/leading build up. So more careful load development/powder workup may be required. rcmodel usually recommends inspecting the Glock barrel around 200-300 lead rounds and I found this to be a good interval as loads that produce fouling will start to decrease accuracy above 300 round count. If your lead loads produce fouling/leading at lower round count, inspect the barrel more often and clean as necessary.

    This is Glock barrel after 100 rounds of lead rounds shot through. At the chamber end on the left picture, you can see loose flaky residue which is less of an issue but see sticky fouling build up forming at the base of rifling. At the muzzle end on the right picture, you can see the start of crusty fouling build up. These fouling build up IS NOT leading and will remove easily with a quick Hoppes #9 solvent soak and copper bore brush. BTW, bullet/powder used were MBC 124 gr RN (SmallBall) and W231/HP-38. Even after several hundred rounds, I do not get leading in Glock barrels with this load, just fouling build up.

    [​IMG]

    Also, while I seat 9mm FMJ/RN plated bullets deeper into the case for greater neck tension and more consistent chamber pressures; with lead bullets, I use longest working OAL to minimize gas leakage for faster pressure build up to deform bullet base and seal with the barrel (that will compress the lube channel to form an "O-ring" seal) - http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chapter_5_Lubrication.htm

    As to shooting powder coated/Hi-Tek coated bullets in Glock barrels, the coating acts as lube and prevents leading of the barrel.

    I have shot MBC 18 BHN lubed lead and Hi-Tek coated bullets in my Glocks and have not experienced leading of the barrels.

    For comparison, picture below shows KKM barrel with square cut land/groove rifling with freebore and sharper start of rifling (Slower 1:24 barrel twist rate that produced greater accuracy with lead bullets for me)

    full&d=1549761569.jpg

    Lone Wolf barrel showing square cut land/groove rifling with short leade and sharper start of rifling (Typical 1:16 barrel twist rate of most match barrels more compatible with lead bullets)

    full&d=1549761569.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2019
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  25. Wreck-n-Crew

    Wreck-n-Crew Member

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    With coated bullets there is no reason to be worried either way. All I shoot is cast and coated bullets with no worry of leading through mine. As cheap as coated bullets are over regular cast there should be no reason to have fear in a Glock Polygonal barrel anymore if your a reloader. If not your likely buying jacketed.

    Mine are a little cheaper I admit because I cast and coat them myself.
     
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