Do You Believe That American Citizens Should Be Able to Carry a Loaded Handgun on Commercial Airlines?

[GRIZ22]

Law enforcement traveling on official business only, escorting prisoners, etc. Must be coordinated with TSA, US Marshalls, etc.

Not sure how it's changed. It was okay for Federal officers to carry on or off duty. Check in at counter. This usually involved whatever airport police checking your ID. Check in with TSA and flight crew. US Marshall never a part of it.

After 9/11 we had to complete an online training module.

Armed FDOs had to attend a 40 hr (?) training program.

State or local officers needed to have a specific reason to be armed.

 

[silicosys4]

Basis for that?

Sure,

"Between 1929 and 1957, there were fewer than 20 incidents of reported hijackings worldwide; several occurred in Eastern Europe."

Gourdin, Kent N. (2015). A profile of the global airline industry. New York.

"According to the FAA, in the 1960s, there were 100 attempts of hijackings involving U.S. aircraft: 77 successful and 23 unsuccessful"

Volpe, John A.; Stewart, John T. (1970). "Aircraft Hijacking: Some Domestic and International Responses". Kentucky Law Journal.

Also,

Public Law act 87-197, amended in 1961 by JFK to ban the carrying of dangerous weapons by passengers on commercial airlines.

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www.congress.gov

Now, one thing I could NOT find, was a list of accidents involving firearms aboard airliners prior to 1961.

 

[GRIZ22]

Only if they can shoot better than me.

I've heard that for 50 years.

You'd be surprised how many can. Firearms training and practice depends on how much the agency wants to pour into it.

 

[GRIZ22]

Just arm every flight deck.

That wouldn't work. Many pilots just want to be pilots. Many say the same thing for teachers and that wouldn't work either.

 

[Show Me]

This is so absurd it's funny. Cant belive so many crazies are out in this audience.

 

[Walkalong]

The chance of the law changing so concealed carry folks can carry on a plane is slim to none, I have better things to think about.

 

[Outpost75]

Not sure how it's changed. It was okay for Federal officers to carry on or off duty. Check in at counter. This usually involved whatever airport police checking your ID. Check in with TSA and flight crew. US Marshall never a part of it.

After 9/11 we had to complete an online training module.

Armed FDOs had to attend a 40 hr (?) training program.

State or local officers needed to have a specific reason to be armed.

We coordinated with Marshalls if transferring a prisoner from state to Federal custody.

 

[GEM]

Nope - too easy for terrorists who seem legal to shoot up many people. You can pull out your J frame.

 

[Lo-Profile]

What part of "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed" don't y'all understand.

Every gun law is a infringement on your 2A Rights .... Every last one of them

 

[argonn]

Bullet fired and not on target at 35,000+ feet is going to end badly. Check ‘em in the hold or just maybe a lock box at the front of the plane.

 

[Ivy Mike]

The ability of a stray bullet to cause damage to an aircraft makes this a hard no for me. The last thing you need is Joe Sixpack who is two drinks in, deciding that he needs to be the hero and pops a hole through the fuselage and into a control surface with 200 people on-board.

 

[Capybara]

NRA RSO here. An emphatic NO! I'd guesstimate that 40-60% of gun owners are unsafe gun handlers. It would be an air disaster waiting to happen.

 

[GEM]

What part of "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed" don't y'all understand.

Every gun law is a infringement on your 2A Rights .... Every last one of them

Would you ban firearms in tne MRI room?

 

[dogtown tom]

What part of "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed" don't y'all understand.

I don't think YOU understand.
No part of "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed" applies to anyone other than the government.
None of it.
Zilch.
Zero.
Nada.
Never has.

 

[Zendude]

And who wants to go through a depressurization at 30k feet every time someone brings a Sig 320 aboard ? Wait, I didn’t say that did I? I’ll show myself out the back door now…

 

[Slamfire]

Can I carry a grenade on an airplane? I might pick one up the next time I go into a war zone and want to tote it home. Along with a land mine, they will fit in my back back. Just have to sling the thing in the over head compartment and it won't be in anyone's way. And I if find an unexploded Civil War cannon ball, shouldn't I be allowed to bring that too. After all, it if did not go off 160 years years ago, what's the chances of it exploding now?

I ought to be allowed to bring my Viking battle axe or my ninja sword if others are bringing firearms.

 

[wanderinwalker]

The ability of a stray bullet to cause damage to an aircraft makes this a hard no for me. The last thing you need is Joe Sixpack who is two drinks in, deciding that he needs to be the hero and pops a hole through the fuselage and into a control surface with 200 people on-board.

And who wants to go through a depressurization at 30k feet every time someone brings a Sig 320 aboard ? Wait, I didn’t say that did I? I’ll show myself out the back door now…

Funny, but like I said earlier, structural damage to the airframe and controls from pistol caliber small arms is so far down the list of concerns it might not even be a concern. A little .45 ACP or a mighty 10mm Auto isn't going to do anything significant when there is an allowable number of missing fasteners on certain panels.

 

[s4s4u]

A negligent discharge through a window at 35,000 feet might be interesting....

 

[Berserker]

Typically I don't believe in banning guns, because people who want to do bad, will just carry anyways. But this is one the few places you can control. So no. Again one of the few or only places I would say this. For one shooting a gun in a plane, isn't good. And again this is one of the few places you can create gun free, not just a sign.

 

[wayneinFL]

Only if they can shoot better than me.

I've heard that for 50 years.

You'd be surprised how many can. Firearms training and practice depends on how much the agency wants to pour into it.

I wouldn't be surprised at all. I suck. There's a reason I was always picked last in gym class.

A lot of the the objections I've heard are that untrained bozos are going to turn the plane and passengers into swiss cheese.

To that objection I say pick whatever minimum standard and cops have to do that to get on the plane. And regular people too. Same standard.

Try it.

https://americanhandgunner.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Air-Marshal-Pistol-Qualification.pdf

Since the whole thread is pretty much a fantasy anyway, how about this?

Set that course of fire up in a spare room next to the TSA line- it's only 7 yards so it won't take up a lot of room. Set up a TSA Super Ultra Precheck Plus First Class line for $100 a pop. Show up for vacation in your flip flops, shorts, and Hawaiian shirt, and your pistol in your pocket or on your hip. If you pass, you reload your gun, skip the metal detector and head for the gate. If you fail, the "womp, womp" sound comes out over the loudspeaker, and you do the walk of shame back to the ticket counter and check your gun.

Better yet, put a big window next to the range looking out into the airport bar. Would be fun to watch. You can take bets on it.

 

[drk1]

In light of the accidental discharges I've experienced, one quite recently, the number of suicidal people who have crossed my path over the course of my life, and the growing number of simply dumb people out there .... my vote would be a resounding no. However, when my government decided that it could no longer trust me, who had volunteered to jump out of a perfectly good airplane to defend it, to fly without some sort of official government approved travel documents, I vowed never to fly again anyway.

 

[shafter]

I've heard that for 50 years.

You'd be surprised how many can. Firearms training and practice depends on how much the agency wants to pour into it.

True. It's hit or miss but some can really shoot. Some departments pretty much have unlimited ammo budgets and you can shoot every day. Alot of guys won't take advantage but some will.

 

[weisse52]

After a trip to my local range and seeing the “skill” of a large number of shooters I vote no…

 

[GRIZ22]

We coordinated with Marshalls if transferring a prisoner from state to Federal custody.

Yes because that transfer would be a Marshalls job.

 

[ilbob]

I don't think YOU understand.
No part of "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed" applies to anyone other than the government.
None of it.
Zilch.
Zero.
Nada.
Never has.

In this case it is the government that is banning the carry of firearms by us serfs on airliners.

But, I am not real worried about it. There are a handful of places like inside of jails and lunatic bins where no one should be carrying firearms, short of a riot.

The constitution in the fifth amendment specifically allows that due process of law can be used to deprive some one of some of their liberty.

It is up to the courts to determine how far the rights we have can go.

The courts have been extremely generous to government as far as abrogating rights mentioned in the 4th amendment. They have been more generous to the people for rights mentioned in the first. the fifth amendment protections have gone both ways.