Do You Believe That American Citizens Should Be Able to Carry a Loaded Handgun on Commercial Airlines?

[kwguy]

Not all pilots want to carry a firearm on a plane they’re piloting. In light of that, there’s new secret tech now that negates these problems. You can simply eject troublesome seats. They can also identify seats in which the phones aren’t in airplane mode. The controls for those systems are right next to the chemtrail activation system, so there’s really no need to worry.

 

[GRIZ22]

True. It's hit or miss but some can really shoot. Some departments pretty much have unlimited ammo budgets and you can shoot every day. Alot of guys won't take advantage but some will.

I was primary firearms instructor for a Federal office of about 200 agents. I had maybe 4 or 5 that had issues qualifying.

 

[Walkalong]

What part of "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed" don't y'all understand.

Every gun law is a infringement on your 2A Rights .... Every last one of them

True, but irrelevant to this discussion.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Violent hijackings went from nonexistent to a major problem almost overnight as soon as guns were outlawed on the passenger decks of commercial flights.

I would love to see the data on this because from what I am finding online, that isn't the case, not in the US, anyways.

 

[silicosys4]

I would love to see the data on this because from what I am finding online, that isn't the case, not in the US, anyways.

See Post #52

 

[Ivy Mike]

Funny, but like I said earlier, structural damage to the airframe and controls from pistol caliber small arms is so far down the list of concerns it might not even be a concern. A little .45 ACP or a mighty 10mm Auto isn't going to do anything significant when there is an allowable number of missing fasteners on certain panels.

Shooting holes in commercial airliners at cruising altitude is a very bad idea. Losing a cover panel isn't the end of the world. Losing a control surface is another matter. While the pilots should be able to compensate for it, I'd rather they not have to all while a plane full of people panics trying to get their O2 masks on because the cabin is depressurizing.

There are places where guns are appropriate and places where they are not. Everyone should be able to carry if they so choose, but that right does not extend to putting others in danger.

 

[dogtown tom]

We coordinated with Marshalls if transferring a prisoner from state to Federal custody.

Marshall= town in East Texas.
Marshal= dude with badge and gun.

 

[dogtown tom]

In this case it is the government that is banning the carry of firearms by us serfs on airliners.

Every commercial airline has policies that prohibit carrying of firearms by passengers.

 

[Jim Watson]

I remember an episode of All in the Family where Archie Bunker advocated giving everyone a gun as they boarded the aircraft.

Well, Jerry Pournelle suggested providing a changing room, stripping everybody down to skivvies and a hospital gown, then handing them a hammer as they board.

Try it.

https://americanhandgunner.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Air-Marshal-Pistol-Qualification.pdf

My club did. It is tough, largely because it is fast. Not by standards of action pistol shooters, but coming out of a pancake holster under a suit coat, those times are fast.

 

[GEM]

My concern is that a group of deep cover, law abiding citizens who are terrorist inclined can get on a large jet with hundreds of passengers. Have each with something like a Glock 17 and a few extra mags. In flight, they decide to kill the passengers. There is no way for you to run, like the mall or to take cover. There is no way for help to arrive. You are not fighting them with a Taurus 85 from your pocket. It's like a Mumbai or Kenya Mall or LA night club horror show but even worse. The confined plane is a special circumstance. Passengers and crew can take out the crazy knife guys, not so a dedicated gun attack. I'm pretty well trained for an old fart but I'm not confidant in a passenger plane aisle shoot out.

Rights aren't suicide pacts has been said.

 

[SterlingBullet]

No. When the airlines come up with a scanner that checks for idiots? Maybe.

Best comment on the internet. Problem is that will screenout half the flying public today.

 

[Lo-Profile]

True, but irrelevant to this discussion.

Much like the NRA

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Best comment on the internet. Problem is that will screenout half the flying public today.

And should take care of many of the pilots, but alas...

 

[kwguy]

There are many places that a bullet wouldn’t be welcome on an airliner. There’s not a lot of excess space for systems. A hole in the “pressure vessel” would probably not be that big a deal, but a hole in a primary hydraulics system, even with redundancies, would suck.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

There are many places that a bullet wouldn’t be welcome on an airliner. There’s not a lot of excess space for systems. A hole in the “pressure vessel” would probably not be that big a deal, but a hole in a primary hydraulics system, even with redundancies, would suck.

Never mind all the meat puppets.

 

[CraigC]

No, no way. Too many idiots.

Now, if we could have a special class of citizen carry permits, for those actually trained in the use of deadly force and authorized to carry into courthouses and such, I'd be for that on flights.

 

[WestKentucky]

Way too many people are totally off their rockers these days. I despise punishing the populace for the actions of a few, but in this case I think it makes sense. I also think that members of the aircrew should be armed discretely and ready to act should the need arise.

 

[Miami_JBT]

Government should not be able to mandate gun-free zones for the vast majority of public spaces and public services.

If private business wants to do so, they can do it like how it is done in FL.

Signs don't carry the weight of law. They have to tell you in person. Disney does that. You walk through a metal detector, and they tell you to secure your piece in your vehicle if you had one on you.

Since places like Walmart and Dolphin Mall are too lazy/cheap to go Disney's route, you can carry even if they post signage that says no. Since signs don't carry the weight of law and they didn't tell you in person.

So, if American Airlines wants to ban guns, they're private property, they can set up their own security and such. They can also be liable for any injuries or loss of life due to their anti-gun policies if terrorists or other dirt-bags cause harm/death on a flight.

If Amtrak wants to ban guns. Nope! Government owned and operated. Government can't violate civil rights.

Same goes for buses, ferries, etc. If they are government owned, you should not be barred from carrying. Publicly owned bus? Can't be a gun-free zone. NYC ferry service? Can't be a gun-free zone.

Disney's ferry service between their parks and hotels? Hey, they're private and they can assume all the reasonability and liability for being anti-gun.

 

[Miami_JBT]

No, no way. Too many idiots.

Now, if we could have a special class of citizen carry permits, for those actually trained in the use of deadly force and authorized to carry into courthouses and such, I'd be for that on flights.

LE can carry under a NLETS notification with a PCFA form all the time on commercial airliners. And I can tell you this, most cops can't shoot worth a damn.

Planes aren't falling out of the sky.

 

[Miami_JBT]

Here's a documentary on the fight to get the Federal Flight Deck Officer Program after 9/11.

 

[Targa]

Once upon a time, people seemed to have more self restraint. Now days, a disagreement about the outcome of a sporting event can lead to gunfire. Maybe if the food were better, and a decent in-flight movie...

This ^^. To add to it the number of people that do not train with their firearm or stay proficient with it and then being stuck in a tube with a couple hundred people and no where to go…yikes, no thank you.

 

[GEM]

About suing when you can't defend yourself, Frank is better qualified to discuss this but I think from discussions that current law and precedent do not support suits against businesses that don't allow you to carry. People say that a great deal but it seems not the case to be a viable lawsuit. Lots of legal world discussions of this.

 

[Slamfire]

My concern is that a group of deep cover, law abiding citizens who are terrorist inclined can get on a large jet with hundreds of passengers. Have each with something like a Glock 17 and a few extra mags. In flight, they decide to kill the passengers. There is no way for you to run, like the mall or to take cover. There is no way for help to arrive. You are not fighting them with a Taurus 85 from your pocket. It's like a Mumbai or Kenya Mall or LA night club horror show but even worse. The confined plane is a special circumstance. Passengers and crew can take out the crazy knife guys, not so a dedicated gun attack. I'm pretty well trained for an old fart but I'm not confidant in a passenger plane aisle shoot out.

Rights aren't suicide pacts has been said.

Better carry rat shot in your carry on firearm, because of Snakes on a Plane!

And don't forget William Shatner shooting an gremlin on the wing of an aircraft. Nasty gremlin was ripping the engine to pieces. Lots of air crews died in WW2 due to gremlins.

 

[Boattale]

I think someone should post a poll allowing us to express our preference via a poll regarding which poll can ask the question with the most obvious answer. This one is a contender.

 

[Miami_JBT]

Once upon a time, people seemed to have more self restraint. Now days, a disagreement about the outcome of a sporting event can lead to gunfire. Maybe if the food were better, and a decent in-flight movie...

Once upon a time, the sensationalist 24 hour news cycle didn't exist.

Hell, a great example is the summer of 2001 (before 9/11 happened), the 24 hour news cycle was reporting an epidemic of shark attacks in Florida.

In reality, it was the lowest recorded summer of shark attacks on record.

Summer of the Shark - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

What you think is an rise in violence is laughably wrong.




Violent crime rates have been plummeting as carry laws have been liberalized.