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Do you carry into places where they post signs telling you not to?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by big inch, Mar 23, 2005.

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  1. big inch

    big inch Member

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    If you are carrying and are entering a place where they have posted a sign that says "No firearms" (or something similar), what do you do? Continue on inside? Turn around and leave? Return to your vehicle and leave your weapon there?

    I'm of the opinion that I would rather have my weapon to defend myself and deal with any problem that may arise from carrying despite the property owner's misguided wishes. Of course, 99.9998% of the time, no one would even know that I have a concealed weapon. That is the point of "concealed" isn't it? :uhoh:
     
  2. TechBrute

    TechBrute Member

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    Here in Texas, the sign must meet certain requirements, or you can legally ignore, which I'm sure most of us do. I've been known to disregard SOME (not all) of the legitimate signs in the interest of expediency. IE, if I park and walk all the way from the back of the parking lot to a store that I'm just going to be running and and coming right back out, I'm not going to hike all the way back to the car just to leave the gun exposed to thieves while I wait vulnerably in the store. Before choosing to break the law like that, I weigh several options including what type of establishment it is, what the relationship I have with the management is, and how well my gun is concealed.
     
  3. pax

    pax Member

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    In Washington, if the place is posted "no guns," and you carry a gun in anyway, and you don't keep it concealed, and you get caught, and they verbally request that you remove your gun from the premises, and you refuse to do so, and you remain on the premises and refuse to leave until the cops arrive, then you can get dinged on a misdemeanor trespass charge. ("Misdemeanor trespass" in this case means, "Hey world, I acted like an *******!")

    I do not generally spend my money in places that are posted, but I have no real compunction about ignoring unenforceable signs. If my life isn't in danger, no one will ever know I carried a weapon there. And if my life is in danger, I'll have more important things to worry about than whether the property owner is offended that I retained my means of self defense.

    Leaving the gun in the car is an absolute last-resort option. Cars get stolen.

    pax

    edited to clarify -- I'm not talking about places where it is outright illegal to carry, such as courthouses or schools. Just about posted private property.
     
  4. answerguy

    answerguy Member

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    Something to consider is- What would be the penalty if found out?

    Candy store- asked to leave

    School house- asked to assume the position
     
  5. Stand_Watie

    Stand_Watie Member

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    Yes, unless the sign says

    "Pursuant to Section 30.06,
    Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed
    handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411,
    Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this
    property with a concealed handgun"

    and

    "i) includes the language described by Paragraph (A) in both English and Spanish;

    (ii) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and

    (iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public"
     
  6. mec

    mec Member

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    It's been almost two years since my last CHL instructor refresher course. At that time, exactly zero licensees had been charged with carrying in a 30-06 posted or a legally prohibited area.

    My practice is to ignore circle/slash no guns signs and refuse to do business with the rare places that post the legal sign.
     
  7. R.H. Lee

    R.H. Lee Member

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    I have never seen such a sign. Maybe they don't have them here.
     
  8. bogie

    bogie Member

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    I pay attention to their wishes. They don't get my money.

    They also get told why. Occasionally they get shown a receipt from a competing business that welcomes my money.
     
  9. nwmanitou

    nwmanitou Member

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    If there are no laws being broken or no risk of getting fired, then concealed means concealed.
     
  10. GunWares

    GunWares Member

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    Okay, but how about Federal facilities, such as the Post Office? Although the actual language of the law is a little vague, it would appear that it's a no-no to carry in the P.O., and I just as soon not anger the Washington-headed monster. Of course, I live out in the boonies in ranching country, so leaving the pistol in the truck is not a big deal.
     
  11. thatguy

    thatguy Member

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    Some states have laws allowing businesses to post carry as off limits. As noted, Texas (maybe others) have specific rules regarding the signs, other states don't.

    To answer your question, if it means breaking the law, then no, I don't ignore signs. It it's just violating their policy, I ignore tham since they won't know I have a gun unless something goes terribly wrong.

    What kicks my ass is gun stores posted no concealed carry. I have seen two, now.
     
  12. Werewolf

    Werewolf Member

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    Not too many no firearms signs in OK but if there is one and you violate it you could lose your CCW if caught. The OK SDA addresses that issue specifically - and defines the penalty. It is a misdemeanor to carry in a posted place. As far as I know the only sign requirement is that it be visible and either graphicly, in words or both basically say no weapons allowed. It doesn't have to reference the law, be in specific colors, use any specific wording etc.

    Carrying in places that are posted or that the law prohibits is a personal choice. It would be foolish in my opinion to tell the world that one breaks the law by carrying when one shouldn't.
     
  13. answerguy

    answerguy Member

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    I am sure that it would make a big difference as to what post office you got exposed at.
    A big city post office where no one knows you could be a big problem.
    A small town post office where you are a familiar face might get you just a friendly "Hey you dropped something".

    A post office that also has federal courts may be a whole different can of worms.
     
  14. Ktulu

    Ktulu Member

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    I have no idea. In the 3 or 4 years Michigan has had a "shall-issue" I haven't seen one sign. That doesn't mean they are not there. Unless it's a big freaking sign that I couldn't possibly miss, I don't spend any time reading the signs and stickers on store doors.
     
  15. EghtySx

    EghtySx Member

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    Concealed means concealed. The way I understand it is that personal protection is a God-given right protected by the highest law in the land.

    There will come a time on this earth when the laws of man do not agree with the laws of God. You will be judged on which you follow.
     
  16. Ala Dan

    Ala Dan Member in memoriam

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    We had a gunstore here in my area that had a sign afixed to their front
    door that read:

    WARNING!

    "NO LOADED WEAPONS BEYOND THIS POINT"

    I was in full police uniform, and did an about face and exited the area.
    On that particular day, I ended up buying a NIB Glock 27 form my
    current employer Simmons Sporting Goods. Needless to say, the other
    business folded within the year.
     
  17. El Rojo

    El Rojo Member

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    That is the nice thing about the PRK, no one assumes anyone is packing so there are no signs! And even if there is (I think the RaboBank Arena has a no carry sign, but see the metal detector rule), I use the metal detector rule. If there is a metal detector, I leave it in the car. If there isn't, they don't mind if I carry there. A pretty simple rule really.

    The key is CONCEALED CARRY. It should not be dropping out or falling on the floor period at any time.
     
  18. answerguy

    answerguy Member

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    Ktulu,
    The old MCRGO board use to have regular discussions on where 'no gun' signs had been spotted. The only business that I can think of that has a 'no guns' sign is the Sunrise Family Credit Union, which happens to be right in my back yard.
     
  19. HankB

    HankB Member

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    Valid Texas PC30.06 signs and "51" signs are something I observe . . . but the only place I frequent which has posted a valid sign is my employer ( :( ) and the facility isn't open to the public.

    Invalid signs I ignore - in some cases, places have deliberately posted invalid signs to placate the sheeple, recognizing that CHL holders who've been properly trained know the invalid signs have no legal standing.

    Post offices are a question mark - some laws would seem to prohibit carrying, but there's an exception "for lawful purposes" which would seem to apply to CHL holders transacting postal business. But established case law seems to be nonexistant, so I don't plan to become the test case by being caught.
     
  20. Augustwest

    Augustwest Member

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    I don't often come upon such signs, but if I do, and they are posted on private property, then I respect the owners' property rights. Anyone who posts such a sign is, however, much less likely to get my business in the future.

    Public property is a whole different story...
     
  21. enfield303

    enfield303 Member

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    Mall Of America-Minnesota

    The last time I was at the Gaga-Mall, oops, I mean Mega-mall, they had a no forearms sign posted just as you walk in the door. It has been a while, but if I remember right, it was just one of the circle-with-a-gun signs. I don't recall if it had any legalspeak along with it. Places like that make me nervous anyway(my Uber-Mall-Ninja instincts tend to go a little nuts. too many people). I live in one of the three counties in Iowa that make it damn near impossible to get a CCW(Bloody liberal College Towns). Anyway, my question is what good does a sign like that do? If you are trying to prevent illegal firearms on the premises, what good is the damn sign? Your average Gang-Puke is just gonna ignore it anyway.
     
  22. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    It's funny everyone worries so much about this Post Office thing. The law says "other lawful purposes" and if a legally obtained CHL is not a lawful purpose then what the hell is?

    How come we never hear of anyone being charged with carrying in a Post Office? Is it because they don't get caught? Or, is it the fact that it's really not against the law.

    I carry in the Post Office all the time, and I feel I'm well within the statutes to do so.

    I do love to ignore the "No Guns" signs here in Texas, especially the little red circle with the slash through the gun. Those are for the soccer moms.
     
  23. answerguy

    answerguy Member

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    Enfield303,

    Please don't correct your typo, everyone knows what you meant and we all could use the chuckle it provided.
     
  24. Timmit

    Timmit Member

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    I don't think I've ever seen one of those signs here in Colorado.
     
  25. zogorion

    zogorion Member

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    There is a shopping mall here in my area, that is widely known to have a "No Guns" policy. The security guards can't carry at the mall, and the local Police Department has to lock thier guns in their cruiser before they respond to a call inside the mall. This is true, I asked the local LEA. The strange thing is, there is no signs or any literature that acknowledges this fact. It seems to be some urban legend that has support from the mall owner and the local LE. I don't really go there for any reason, but I'd still carry if I did.

    On the other hand, the local Bass Pro Shops has a sign that I love. It reads "All firearms must be checked at the counter before entering store, except for concealed carry permit holders."
     
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