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do you claim "flyers" when shooting for accuracy?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by knights_armorer, Jan 18, 2011.

?

do you call "flyers"?

  1. no, as far as i'm concerned "flyers" is a hockey team.

    77 vote(s)
    76.2%
  2. yes, i call "flyers". it improves my groups.

    24 vote(s)
    23.8%
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  1. knights_armorer

    knights_armorer Member

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    in my opinion there are no such things as "flyers".

    if i started calling flyers i would have several more legit m.o.a. rifles, but i never have.

    in my opinion a flyer is nothing more than a miss
     
  2. kis2

    kis2 Member

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    I have flyers, but they are part of my group, so I think that puts me in the 'no' category
     
  3. Z-Michigan

    Z-Michigan Member

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    I can shoot sub-MOA 1-shot groups all day long.

    No, calling flyers to calculate groups doesn't fly with me.
     
  4. FlyinBryan

    FlyinBryan Member

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    i can usually tell if its me that blows a decent group (which for me is between 1/2" and 3/4" @100yds), but i measure it, and if it blows my group out to 1 1/2", then thats what it is, and i'm mad at myself for blowing it.

    i also never shoot groups of less than 5 shots. its a nice round number
    actually, all m1 groups are 8 rds

    so no, i dont call flyers. ive never measured a group, and left a hole out of the equation.
     
  5. txhoghunter

    txhoghunter Member

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    That's a negative. If I blow a shot, I'm going to kick myself for it until I don't do it anymore. Calling a flyer is like a mulligan (golf), and as much as I need them, I would prefer to just get better.
     
  6. Balrog

    Balrog Member

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    I didnt think anyone on the internet ever shot more than 1" groups at a hundred yards.
     
  7. BrocLuno

    BrocLuno Member

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    Add em all up and that's what you get - just like the critter down range.
     
  8. RNB65

    RNB65 Member

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    Flyers are for girls. :p
     
  9. FlyinBryan

    FlyinBryan Member

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    i just want to clarify here that my user name in no way implies that i condone flyers, but is more directed towards aircraft with rotors. (fixed wings are for girls too) :neener:
     
  10. elmerfudd

    elmerfudd Member

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    It depends on whether I'm trying to rate the gun or my shooting. If I'm shooting groups to get an idea of how accurate the gun is, and I know I flubbed the shot, then I call it. If I'm shooting groups to get an idea of how accurate I am, then that flubbed shot counts.

    The problem with calling fliers, is that so many people just call any outlying shot a flier. IMO, if you're calling fliers, you should know it the instant you pulled the trigger.
     
  11. W.E.G.

    W.E.G. Member

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    Just the ones marked in black sharpie.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. snake284

    snake284 Member

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    The group you shoot is what it is. If you don't mention the flyers, then you are only kidding yourself. And if someone sees you doing that and not claiming a flyer, then your credibility among the shooting community is ruined. What I do when I get a flyer is try to diagnose why I got it and try to correct it. If you don't do that and just try to cover it up, then there's a good chance you're going to keep shooting flyer groups. That sucks. Go for the gold and get it right.
     
  13. BrainOnSigs

    BrainOnSigs Member

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    I guess my definition of a flyer is when I know the rifle is shooting perfect and my reload is perfect and the conditions are perfect...and I gack the shot to ruin a great group...then I call it a flyer...induced by me making a poor shot.
     
  14. oldfool

    oldfool Member

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    if judging what the gun can do, yes
    if judging what I can do, no

    knowing a gun well enough to call your shot, and knowing when you "pulled" your shot is necessary to the first
    counting ALL holes in the paper is necessary to the second
    and a group ought be at least 5 consecutive, preferably ten consecutive

    never yet met a gun that couldn't shoot better than I could
    well.. ok, one or two, but rare exceptions to the rule
     
  15. mcdonl

    mcdonl Member

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    All my bullets fly baby!!
     
  16. HorseSoldier

    HorseSoldier Member

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    +1. Dropping any and all rounds I slung to then brag on how tight a group I can shoot (not counting my misses or slung rounds) is serious mall ninja silliness. But by the same token, if I know I screwed up my trigger manipulation, sight picture, or whatever, then a round whose poor placement I can attribute to error on my part does not tell me anything helpful about what a weapon and ammunition combination is mechanically capable of.
     
  17. JDMorris

    JDMorris Member

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    For Handload shooting, No.
    But when I pay 25 bucks for a box of ammo I want all my groups to be as good as they can be, and if that means calling my goof that's fine with me..
     
  18. Offfhand

    Offfhand Member

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    So true, Usually they are closer to 1/2"
     
  19. JDMorris

    JDMorris Member

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    I posted some groups over an inch on my range report for load testing, why don' you two take a look ;)
     
  20. AK103K

    AK103K Member

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    You dont call "flyers", flyers just happen, for any reason other than you causing it.

    If you called the shot, you knew you did something wrong, and caused it to happen.

    Other than messing up your group for bragging rights, a called shot doesnt count towards that group. The fact you called it shows you know what youre doing and know the reason for the errant round.

    If youre getting flyers, and youre not calling them, and the gun and load is known to be accurate and not normally throw them, then you are likely the problem.
     
  21. Tentwing

    Tentwing Member

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    Flyers are part of my groups...:eek: As a general rule a flyers speaks to my inaccuracy:rolleyes:....... not the rifles accuracy.

    Most of my rifles are sub MOA all day;).... Their owner however is NOT:uhoh:

    The more patient I am and the more methodical I am in my approach to the shot The less flyers ,or even no flyers I have.

    So If your measuring one rifles accuracy and you have one flyer in say a ten shot group maybe you give less credence to that flyers effect on the group...

    However if your measuring my accuracy then you would always count the full effect of the flyer, because 999 times out of a 1000 that flyer is out there all by itself because of something that I as the shooter either did wrong or did not compensate for.:rolleyes:

    ..............Tentwing
     
  22. kwelz

    kwelz Member

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    A miss is a Miss. You can call it a flyer if you want but it is still you missing the point of aim.
     
  23. Jon Coppenbarger

    Jon Coppenbarger Member

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    If my rifle has been shot and used before and I know what it is suppossed to do with this nut behind the wheel then the answer is maybe?

    When I pull the trigger I will call the shot and if it is not where I call it then I look for a answer, me, the load, the conditions?
     
  24. CraigC
    • Contributing Member

    CraigC Member

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    When you're load testing from the bench, a called flyer is never counted. A called flyer is exactly that, you know you screwed up. Bench testing is all about removing as much human error as possible to find out how accurate a firearm/load combination is. A flyer is human error in its truest form. When bench testing, a called flyer is not relevant. It's not about bragging, it's about usable data. If the shot just went askew for no discernable reason, that's different.

    When shooting from field positions, i.e. "practice", they all count. Although it does help greatly to know which ones were your own fault for whatever reason. Whether you anticipated the shot, jerked the trigger or simply let it break at the wrong time. What you did wrong and why is more important than what you did right.

    I never post groups shot from anywhere but the bench during testing. Because who cares how well "I" can shoot?
     
  25. AK103K

    AK103K Member

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    Yea, but the difference is in the "knowing".
     
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