Do you get what you pay for?

[vito]

Not knowing much about rifles, an ad today caught my attention. It was for a HI-Point 9mm carbine for $240. Is it worth considering or should I expect it to be a piece of junk at that low price? Although I own a few handguns, and keep a Mossberg 500 in the house for home defense, right now I don't own any rifles. But for this low price it seems like it might be worthwhile to add a rifle like this. Recommendations?

 

[Hondo 60]

You do get what you pay for with Hi-Point.

If it's merely for having fun plinking, ya it might be worth it.
If you're looking for something that'll last and is accurate, umm, I'd say
"Move along, nothing to see here".

 

[FL-NC]

In my opinion, its a piece of junk. You would be better off with one of the carbines made by kel-tech, or better yet, an AR of some type. Lately I've seen Ruger AR-556 at gun shows for $400.

 

[MrGiggles]

I had one for a while and loved it. It's one that I regret selling.

It's was very accurate for a pistol carbine, 4-5 inches at 100 yards IIRC.

I never had an issue with it, it ate whatever ammo I put in it. 9mm is super cheap too. Their warranty is fantastic if you need it, so I've read. Not limited to the original purchaser either, last I knew. Made in the US as well.

Crude and a bit clunky, but that's to be expected for a low cost firearm.

An AR is good competition and definitely more accurate, but noise and over penetration are things to think about for home defense, if that's a use you have planned for it.

Given the choice, I'd rather plink with the 995 than an AR.

I've wanted to get another, but the price has gone up a good bit on them. I paid around 260 OTD back in 2011. 240 is a very good price.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

You get what you pay for because you paid for it. The only real question is what sort of value did you get for your money. The phrase "you get what you pay for" seems to imply that there is a necessary correlation between price and quality. While it is true to some extent, if it was, then there would be no bargains to be had.

Years ago, I bought a Beretta Storm carbine and shot it against a buddy's Hi-Point carbine, both 9mm. He paid less than half of what I paid and as near as I could tell after shooting about 600 rounds each, the advantage of the Beretta over the Hi-Point was that there were high capacity mags for the Beretta and at the time, the Hi-Point only had 10 rounders. They seem to run quite well.

So the question is, what do you want to do with it?

 

[Geno]

I wrote a review here 10 years back entitled "The Little Carbine that Could". It is worth a read. My view: the Hi-Point is an excellent carbine, with a lifetime warranty.

JMHO,

Geno
(Formerly Doc2005)

 

[Danoobie]

PRO:--You DO get you money's worth, with a Hi-Point carbine. A functional sling, a couple tools, A generous amount of rail mounts, a recoil-absorbing stock,
and a top-notch warranty, honored by an all American firm, based in Ohio.
CON:--While you DO get your money's worth, let's face it, 240$ ain't much money.

Double-Naught, respectfully, I own both the 995TS, and the CX4 Storm, and IMO the
Hi-Point can't fart in the general direction of the Storm. Better build, better quality, better looks,
The Beretta field-strips easier, comes with a solid hard case. More dependable, more accurate.
I would fight with a Storm. I'm reluctant to take the high-point out in the rain.

 

[Walkalong]

There are a lot of happy High Point 9MM carbine owners out there. Will it compete with carbines double and triple their price? Not in looks. Not in fit. Function? Most report them to be great. Accuracy? Most are very happy. Fun? Everyone likes shooting 9MM carbines. Would I buy it for home defense? I would have to have some range time with it first and get very comfortable with it, just like any other firearm.

 

[fpgt72]

Ahhh....young padawan.

The good old high point. For some reason the carbine gets a pass.....the hand guns are pretty loathed. And oddly they are pretty close to the same guts inside. Wonder why that is?

Oh....9mm carbines are cool.

Is a High point....anything of...High quality, well define quality.

Will it go bang and not KABOOM....well yea, no real greater percentage chance of a kaboom over anything else. I don't know of any suits against them....and in this day and age if anyone even had a chance to sue the living fire out of a gun company it would be all over the news....just like Remington....the news keeps digging that old dog up. So I think they are as safe to shoot as anything.

Will it go bang if you "need" it to go bang. Again...yea, I think it would. And again the same reasons....do you really think it would not be all over the snews if a gun did not go bang and the gun owner got killed over a bad gun....think of the traction the media and anti gunners could get out of something like that....so again I think they work.

Then if they don't work....they will fix it....forever. Does not sound bad to me.

Now you are wondering do I own one....nope, have I shot one, Yup....and all I can say is....doG....ahh that thing is built to a price point. Will you run 10,000 rounds in it with no issues....nope. Is it going to be the new military or law enforcement choice....nope.

They are in a word cheap....not inexpensive, but cheap.....and past ugly....way past ugly.

Really if I was at a point in my life where I had to have but one "NEW" pistol...PISTOL. And I did not have much cash, I think this would work....but for the fun of shooting no, at my stage in life I can afford pretty things, things with craftsmanship.....things that feel good in my hand.

But I don't think they are totally horrid....and yea if you like that planet of the apes look (1970's) the gun is pretty cool looking, and likely would be fun to play with.

 

[bassjam]

Folks who haven’t owned one love to hate on Hi Points. Folks who used to own one will tell you it’s the gun they regret selling. Folks who do own Hi Points enjoy shooting a cheap, reliable firearm that functions better than its price-point would have you believe.

I was in the marking for a 9mm carbine a couple years ago. What I really wanted was the CZ Scorpion, but I didn’t want badly enough to drop a grand on one. I thought about settling for the Kel-tec, but that thought of settling for something and still paying $450 didn’t seem like a great idea at the time. Then I found a Hi Point 995 TS for $240 and figured it’d be worth a shot. I already owned a Hi Point 9mm handgun that has been flawless and is pretty darned accurate.

What I found is that the carbine is a little un-ergonomic, and very ugly, but it’s a blast at the range. I haven’t shot past 50 yards, but with the factory open sights I can do 1.5-2” groups at that distance which I think it acceptable. I haven’t put a ton of rounds though it yet, but so far it’s run without a hiccup. Once my Redball 20 round magazines come in (Fedex says today) I’m considering leaving the Hi Point locked up behind my truck seat. I’d have no reservations about using it as a defense weapon, and nothing I’ve read points to them being any less reliable than any of the much more expensive carbines.

So if you have $240 burning a hole in your pocket, get one and enjoy it. You’ll always have some gun snobs who will turn up their nose at Hi Points, but they are really good guns for the price you pay. I'd say you get more than what you pay for with a Hi Point.

 

[Everready73]

I wouldn't ever buy a High Point pistol if I had a choice, but I would consider the carbine for a range gun. I have read many good reports on their reliability. They may not be pretty, but they do have a lifetime warranty and if you are on a budget it would be a decent choice. That being said if you can stretch the budget to 350-400 you can get a decent AR15 from PSA and a few others that has advantages such as looks, parts interchangeability etc

 

[kcofohio]

Not knowing much about rifles, an ad today caught my attention. It was for a HI-Point 9mm carbine for $240. Is it worth considering or should I expect it to be a piece of junk at that low price? Although I own a few handguns, and keep a Mossberg 500 in the house for home defense, right now I don't own any rifles. But for this low price it seems like it might be worthwhile to add a rifle like this. Recommendations?

The base model generally should go for about $215 here.

Hi-Point has quite a reputation for great CS. Your call.

 

[jmorris]

The cheapest firearm I ever bought was an estate sale Remington 510 for $35. I have spent 100 times that amount on firearms that are not as accurate or I suppose as reliable as a single shot bolt action.

 

[Choctaw]

I have had several in different calibers. It is not an AR and not meant to be. What it is, however, is a carbine that is accurate right out of the box and will eat ANY type of ammo fed to it. I have had ZERO problems with any of them. They are very fun little rifles.

 

[MrGiggles]

The base model generally should go for about $215 here.

Hi-Point has quite a reputation for great CS. Your call.

I'd like to be where you are.

Most gun shops here have them just shy of 300 OTD, and there are only a couple on Gunbroker under 250, not including shipping and FFL.

 

[12Bravo20]

I have owned a Hi Point 4095 carbine (40S&W) for over 10 years now. It has never failed me and is accurate. I can ring a 12 inch steel gong at 100 yards all day long with it. Yes they ARE ugly, fit and finish isn't the best either. I would not hesitate to buy another one or to recommend one to other people on a budget.

 

[Jason_W]

Do you get what you pay for? If you're lucky.

Often you get less, very rarely you get more. That holds true across all products and services, not just those that are firearms related.

Yeah, I'm a cynic.

 

[someguy2800]

I don't think the dollar is worth what we think it is anymore. Increases in wages have not kept up with increasing costs of goods. There are so many associated cost in employing someone that the costs of labor are huge and as such most people can't afford anything with any level of real craftsmanship anymore because the labor in making such products makes them expensive. That forces manufacturing to automate which results in products that can be built quickly and cheaply by low skill labor. The days of products like a winchester model 70 super grade or a Ruger #1 being affordable are long gone. Luckily manufactures are getting good at it and now we have low cost products like a ruger american that shoots better than the old winchesters did, even if they have the craftsmanship of a riding lawn mower.

 

[LoonWulf]

I really like the one i have.
The design is simple with relatively large components, thats a hard combo to screw up. The gun has eaten everything from my puffball handloads, and Winchester WB, to extra hot 124s and defensive 147 with no issues.
Accuracy is actually pretty good with the red dot groups run sub 2" at 50 yds, with good ammo coming in closer to 1". I havent shot groups at 100, but hitting a pop can is a simple as putting the dot on it and firing.
I DO actually use mine as a home defense gun, ive shot over 1000 rounds thru mine, mostly of my questionable handloads, and it hasnt choked yet. Here in hawaii we are limited to 10rnds in ANYTHING that uses a "pistol" magazine (ARs are legally included, tho pistol ARs themselves arnt legal here). Now in an area where i could legally use A hicap mag, i might go for some thing else.

The one flaw in the rifle that Ive found (mine is an older model perhaps they have changed this), is that the trigger pin is small and the trigger is plastic. While im actually pretty confident in it now having used it a ton, when i origianlly got the gun i seriously considered having a copy of my modified trigger made from aluminum, as there isnt a way to increase the size of the trigger pin easily.

Long story short....YES, with a HI-Point you do get EXACTLY what you pay for.
The guns fairly homely, most of the parts are cast, stamped and or have minimal milling, the trigger is squishy and kind of a lame shape, magazine is limited to 10rnds internal (tho you can get redballs if you can legally own them), and last but not least there are really no functional upgrades available for them, most of it is dress up (they dont really need any upgrades mind). oh and they are heavyish

The good side is you get a gun that is out of the box generally very reliable, accurate, balances well, and will handle pretty much any ammo you happen to scrounge up. Also should you have any issues customer service is excellent!

I dressed mine up with an ATI stock that copies the Beretta Storm. Improved the feel, but added weight, and actually made it harder to operate the saftey than id like (ill probably fix that at some point).

 

[Jason_W]

I don't think the dollar is worth what we think it is anymore. Increases in wages have not kept up with increasing costs of goods. There are so many associated cost in employing someone that the costs of labor are huge and as such most people can't afford anything with any level of real craftsmanship anymore because the labor in making such products makes them expensive. That forces manufacturing to automate which results in products that can be built quickly and cheaply by low skill labor. The days of products like a winchester model 70 super grade or a Ruger #1 being affordable are long gone. Luckily manufactures are getting good at it and now we have low cost products like a ruger american that shoots better than the old winchesters did, even if they have the craftsmanship of a riding lawn mower.

This is all too true true. I can't be the only one who is at least a little bummed out by this. Everything feels so, temporary, disposable, and low quality across the board. Nothing seems built to last.

Maybe the guns churned out automatically with little to no human involvement shoot more accurately, but will those guns shoot at all 100 years from now? I mean, are Ruger Americans and guns like them the c ell phones of firearms? To be tossed and replaced every few years.

 

[someguy2800]

I work in an industry that uses plastics and I do wonder how some of the plastic components in todays firearms will hold up to 100 years of UV light, cleaning solvents, and heat cycling. However I have no concerns about the guns themselves lasting. The metalurgy in guns today is really good. Even on some of the metal injection molded parts.

Cheap guns of course are nothing new, for example just looks at a sears catalog from 100 years ago and you will see lots of cheaply and quickly made guns with minimal finish work. Alot of the cheap guns made today I do expect will be treated as disposable but thats how cheap guns have always been treated. If not the pawn shops and gun shows would be full of cheap 22's and shotguns from the 1920's, but they aren't because those cheap "sears catalog" type guns from years past were all thrown away when they got broken or worn out or when they were replaced with something new. The nice guns from that time are still around because they were valued and cared for and usually not shot much. The same is largely true for fine quality guns bought today, most of them will not get shot a great deal over the next hundred years, assuming we still have the right to own them 100 years from now.

 

[Jason_W]

I work in an industry that uses plastics and I do wonder how some of the plastic components in todays firearms will hold up to 100 years of UV light, cleaning solvents, and heat cycling. However I have no concerns about the guns themselves lasting. The metalurgy in guns today is really good. Even on some of the metal injection molded parts.

Cheap guns of course are nothing new, for example just looks at a sears catalog from 100 years ago and you will see lots of cheaply and quickly made guns with minimal finish work. Alot of the cheap guns made today I do expect will be treated as disposable but thats how cheap guns have always been treated. If not the pawn shops and gun shows would be full of cheap 22's and shotguns from the 1920's, but they aren't because those cheap "sears catalog" type guns from years past were all thrown away when they got broken or worn out or when they were replaced with something new. The nice guns from that time are still around because they were valued and cared for and usually not shot much. The same is largely true for fine quality guns bought today, most of them will not get shot a great deal over the next hundred years, assuming we still have the right to own them 100 years from now.

So, buy the economy gun and try and upgrade the cheap parts if that's an option.

There are some aftermarket stocks for the American that if nothing else look a lot better than the factory stocks.

 

[LoonWulf]

This is all too true true. I can't be the only one who is at least a little bummed out by this. Everything feels so, temporary, disposable, and low quality across the board. Nothing seems built to last.

Maybe the guns churned out automatically with little to no human involvement shoot more accurately, but will those guns shoot at all 100 years from now? I mean, are Ruger Americans and guns like them the c ell phones of firearms? To be tossed and replaced every few years.

I really dont mind it, continued purchases means more products available. Most folks who buy one gun buy more, and eventually most of us wind up getting a few "nicer" guns, that we will hang onto for quite some time.

Cellphones maybe a bad analogy, as the com technology has changed considerably in recent years, perhaps not every year, but much more so than firearms tech.

 

[Jason_W]

I really dont mind it, continued purchases means more products available. Most folks who buy one gun buy more, and eventually most of us wind up getting a few "nicer" guns, that we will hang onto for quite some time.

Cellphones maybe a bad analogy, as the com technology has changed considerably in recent years, perhaps not every year, but much more so than firearms tech.

Agreed. I was just searching for something that exemplifies the trend toward the disposable.

 

[DM~]

I have a Hi Point 9mm carbine, it's been just fine so far and I like it. I think I paid $250.00 for it...

Would I buy one of their handguns? Probably not as the ones I've handled, I wasn't too impressed with...

DM