Do you have "..Shield" or other legal assistance? I'm not familiar.

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My only info is reading random comments about the benefits for those who carry.
I would rather ask clumsy, ill-phrased questions versus nothing.
Google might be helpful, but some of you might offer first hand advice.

Is the legal assistance designed to help prevent being charged with a criminal offense, or also with a civil infraction?
Is the main benefit only for the few days immediately after being accused of assault, manslaughter (or worse), or does the monthly cost include legal counsel on a continuous basis?

None of my background (now retired) dealt with any type of legal knowledge or law enforcement.
Being 62 years old with the TN CCW, my carry has been sporadic, began about two years ago, and is always IWB.
 
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Coverages vary greatly among companies and plans within companies. Some only cover your legal defense fees to defend against a criminal prosecution, while others also include representation in a civil matter for being sued by the victim's (perp's) family.

Your homeowner's umbrella liability insurance may cover you against the latter, check with your insurance agent. But your homeowner's policy won't do a thing about criminal proceedings.

With the caveat that I haven't done a deep-dive into the various carry insurance plans, some have had an "email a lawyer" question process, and others had mandatory training requirements as a term of coverage. I'm not sure what legal counsel on a continuous basis you're looking for.

My membership in MCRGO includes an "ask a lawyer" service.
 
Your best bet is to carefully read the contract. In most cases it is not an actual insurance policy for legal reasons, although some of them seem to have insurance policies that back up at least part of their coverage. Something about not being able to insure against criminal liability I think.
 
In general, homeowner's and umbrella liability insurance only cover unintentional acts. If your gun goes off, because you were startled or tripped, while you were holding a home invader at gunpoint, you would be covered. If you deliberately shot him to save your life, you would not be covered. For that, you need one of the self defense policies. Search The High Road for threads on this subject. There have been a number of them.
 
In general, homeowner's and umbrella liability insurance only cover unintentional acts. If your gun goes off, because you were startled or tripped, while you were holding a home invader at gunpoint, you would be covered. If you deliberately shot him to save your life, you would not be covered.
My understanding is that while most homeowner liability policies are written that way, state courts have not always enforced it that way. It seems to be something that varies from state to state. In any case, if it bothers you, some kind of self defense coverage is a good idea.

ETA: I will try to find my umbrella policy when I get home tonight. But I seem to recall one of the things it does cover is defending against libel and slander claims. It would seem that those are intentional acts.
 
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I just checked my homeowner's umbrella policy and this is one of the provisions:

This exclusion does not apply:
(1) to personal injury resulting solely from the use of reasonable force to protect persons or property;​
 
"Is the legal assistance designed to help prevent being charged with a criminal offense, or also with a civil infraction?"

It's designed to profit from people's anxiety. Companies like USCCA do an admirable job of fear mongering in order to drive people to purchase insurance.

In my experience, you get what you pay for. A $30/month prepaid legal service may help you prep a document or a write a letter, but make no mistake they are in it to cash everyone's $30 check each month and do absolutely nothing for it. Johnny Cochran ain't dropping from the sky to represent you for $30/month.

I don't carry insurance (unless the NRA provides something). The FOP says they'll cover me, but I know better. I'll pay the $10,000 out of pocket to retain a decent attorney IF I ever need one.

Now balance this with the knowledge that I've been LE for over a decade. This is why it's pretty transparent I don't like USCCA's fear mongering commercials always telling people the police are booking innocent people for defending themselves. OMG the po-po will lock you up!!! B.S. the police are probably secretly be a tad grateful a frequent flier is no longer a problem. The sort of person you have to shoot will have a criminal record, or be on drugs, or both. Look, if you got no choice but to use lethal force to preserve your life or someone else's, then it's justifiable. The police can't invent a reason to take you to jail, and they have no motive. In fact, you won't be dealing with a uniformed cop like in the advertising, it will be a homicide detective. The only entities to fear are the attorneys and the judges (who are attorneys post-metamorphisis) who actually profit from leveraging your assets against your freedom. Who really has the motive to tighten the thumbscrews on you, the cop making $30/hr regardless of the outcome or the attorneys who make $300/hr in a contested case?

So the first hurdle is the criminal investigation. You used lethal force. Was it justified? It doesn't matter whether you used a handgun, handloads, a garden hose, a golf club or a Toyota. Either the force is justified by statute or not. If you could've walked away with a damaged ego, without drawing blood, then it's probably not a justified shoot. *Spoiler* Frequently, homicide cases go in front of a grand jury. Every police involved shooting in AZ goes in front of the grand jury. This way one rogue person can't maliciously choose to prosecute you.

The civil case will hinge heavily on the criminal case. Because while a civil case only requires the preponderance of the evidence, lawyers know it's a steep uphill battle trying to hold you responsible for a death that was determined to be justified by police and declined for prosecution/indictment by a grand jury.

By all means, feel free to invoke your right to counsel. Tell the police you'll give a statement later. If there is damning evidence strewn about, you might be in custody. Lemme tell ya, I'm not relying on the FOP $30/mo prepaid attorney to do much. I'm calling a legit criminal defense attorney and forking over the $$$ for a good defense. Maybe I have to take a bit out of the deferred comp or get a title loan, etc.

Realistically, I'm very confident that heaven forbid I have to use lethal force, there will have been no other option left.

Apologies for the long post, but it's 0332 and sarge has 3 hours left on watch.

If paying $30/month for CCW insurance helps you sleep, then it's probably worth it. Clip the insurance card with the phone number to your rape whistle lanyard and swallow the blue pill.
 
I'll pay the $10,000 out of pocket to retain a decent attorney IF I ever need one.
I've heard it's more like $30k to $50k.

The only entities to fear are the attorneys and the judges ...
That includes prosecutors who have a great deal of latitude about whom they choose to prosecute. George Zimmerman was put on trial after police cleared him.

You used lethal force.... Either the force is justified by statute or not.
The problem is what it will cost you to prove that in court if an aggressive prosecutor or plaintiff's attorney thinks you can't put up a strong defense.

Frequently, homicide cases go in front of a grand jury.... This way one rogue person can't maliciously choose to prosecute you.
A grand jury in northwestern Nebraska indicted a police chief for shooting a teenage burglary suspect who pointed a stolen handgun at him. (https://www.starherald.com/news/loc...cle_4e4f25d4-9d60-5358-ae11-701a50cc72ce.html)

The civil case will hinge heavily on the criminal case. Because while a civil case only requires the preponderance of the evidence, lawyers know it's a steep uphill battle trying to hold you responsible for a death that was determined to be justified by police and declined for prosecution/indictment by a grand jury.
After he was acquitted for shooting four muggers, Bernhard Goetz lost a civil suit for $43 million. He declared bankruptcy because of his legal bills but wasn't let out of the civil judgement. (He claims not to have paid anything on it.) He is financially ruined for life.

By all means, feel free to invoke your right to counsel. Tell the police you'll give a statement later.
Good advice. There are valid neurological reasons why your memory won't be accurate, due to the stress of fighting for your life, for at least 24 hours after the incident.

The Warrior Poet Society has an interview with lawyer Andrew Branca, author of The Law of Self Defense, about insurance (https://warriorpoetsociety.us/videos/). Branca is now associated with CCW-Safe and speaks well of USCCA and ACLDN.

Recoil has an article with a table that compares several insurance plans (http://www.recoilweb.com/protecting-yourself-after-you-protect-yourself-136637.html).
 
... Was it justified? It doesn't matter whether you used a handgun, handloads, a garden hose, a golf club or a Toyota. Either the force is justified by statute or not.....

The statutes merely define the standards which need to be satisfied in order for one's act of violence against another human to be justified. The issues generally involve the facts, exactly what happened and exactly how and why it happened, and whether those facts actually met the standards as defined in the statutes. When the facts are in dispute or there is disagreement about the interpretation of those facts and how the law applies to them things can get very muddy, expensive and uncertain. For just a few examples:

  • This couple, arrested in early April and finally exonerated under Missouri's Castle Doctrine in early June. And no doubt after incurring expenses for bail and a lawyer, as well as a couple of month's anxiety, before being cleared.

  • Larry Hickey, in gun friendly Arizona: He was arrested, spent 71 days in jail, went through two different trials ending in hung juries, was forced to move from his house, etc., before the DA decided it was a good shoot and dismissed the charges.

  • Mark Abshire in Oklahoma: Despite defending himself against multiple attackers on his own lawn in a fairly gun-friendly state with a "Stand Your Ground" law, he was arrested, went to jail, charged, lost his job and his house, and spent two and a half years in the legal meat-grinder before finally being acquitted.

  • Harold Fish, also in gun friendly Arizona: He was still convicted and sent to prison. He won his appeal, his conviction was overturned, and a new trial was ordered. The DA chose to dismiss the charges rather than retry Mr. Fish.

  • Gerald Ung: He was attacked by several men, and the attack was captured on video. He was nonetheless charged and brought to trial. He was ultimately acquitted.

  • While each was finally exonerated, it came at great emotional and financial cost.

  • And note also that two of those cases arose in States with a Castle Doctrine/Stand Your Ground law in effect at the time.

Also, consider the essential nature of a self defense plea. If you are going to be claiming self defense, you will wind up admitting all the elements of what would, absent legal justification, constitute a crime. You will necessarily admit that you were there, that you fired the gun, and that you intended to shoot the decedent. Your defense is that your use of lethal force in self defense satisfied the applicable legal standard and that, therefore, it was justified. So now you have to affirmatively present evidence from which the trier of fact could infer that your conduct met the applicable legal standard justifying the use of lethal force in self defense.

In some jurisdictions, you may not have to prove it, i. e., you don't have to convince the jury. But you will at least have to present a prima facie case, i. e., sufficient evidence which, if true, establishes that you have satisfied all legal elements necessary to justify your conduct. Then it will be the prosecutor's burden to attack your claim and convince the jury (in some jurisdictions, he will have to convince the jury beyond a reasonable doubt) that you did not act in justified self defense. And even if you didn't have to prove self defense (only present a prima facie case), the more convincing your story, and your evidence, is, the harder it will be for the prosecutor to meet his rebuttal burden.

Several years ago a lawyer by the name of Lisa Steele wrote an excellent article for lawyers on defending a self defense case. The article was entitled "Defending a Self Defense Case" and published in the March, 2007, edition of the journal of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers, The Champion. It was republished in four parts, with permission, on the website, Truth About Guns. The article as republished can be read here: Part 1; Part 2; Part 3; and Part 4.

As Ms. Steele explains the unique character of a self defense case in Part 1:
...Self-defense is all-or-nothing. In order to establish it, the client has to admit being at the crime scene, with a weapon, which he or she used to intentionally harm the aggressor. The client has to admit that he injured the aggressor. The client has to convince the jury that if a reasonable person had been standing in his shoes, the reasonable person would have done the same thing. In effect, the aggressor invited his fate by threatening or inflicting serious bodily harm, or by threatening to kill the client.

In one fell swoop, the client has given up alibi and mistaken identity defenses. He or she has given up any claim that the wound was made by accident. Generally, the client must give up provocation (heat of passion or extreme emotional disturbance). Logically, provocation implies an unreasonable response to a situation, and mitigates murder to manslaughter. Self-defense implies a rational response to a very dangerous situation and, if successful, results in an acquittal. Similarly, the client must give up claims of mental illness or insanity and defenses based on intoxication or drug use....
...

... Often, the defendant will need to testify in order to establish his subjective belief about the threat and need to respond defensively. This can be done through circumstantial evidence, but it is difficult....
 
"Is the legal assistance designed to help prevent being charged with a criminal offense, or also with a civil infraction?"

It's designed to profit from people's anxiety. Companies like USCCA do an admirable job of fear mongering in order to drive people to purchase insurance.

In my experience, you get what you pay for. A $30/month prepaid legal service may help you prep a document or a write a letter, but make no mistake they are in it to cash everyone's $30 check each month and do absolutely nothing for it. Johnny Cochran ain't dropping from the sky to represent you for $30/month.

I don't carry insurance (unless the NRA provides something). The FOP says they'll cover me, but I know better. I'll pay the $10,000 out of pocket to retain a decent attorney IF I ever need one.

Now balance this with the knowledge that I've been LE for over a decade. This is why it's pretty transparent I don't like USCCA's fear mongering commercials always telling people the police are booking innocent people for defending themselves. OMG the po-po will lock you up!!! B.S. the police are probably secretly be a tad grateful a frequent flier is no longer a problem. The sort of person you have to shoot will have a criminal record, or be on drugs, or both. Look, if you got no choice but to use lethal force to preserve your life or someone else's, then it's justifiable. The police can't invent a reason to take you to jail, and they have no motive. In fact, you won't be dealing with a uniformed cop like in the advertising, it will be a homicide detective. The only entities to fear are the attorneys and the judges (who are attorneys post-metamorphisis) who actually profit from leveraging your assets against your freedom. Who really has the motive to tighten the thumbscrews on you, the cop making $30/hr regardless of the outcome or the attorneys who make $300/hr in a contested case?

So the first hurdle is the criminal investigation. You used lethal force. Was it justified? It doesn't matter whether you used a handgun, handloads, a garden hose, a golf club or a Toyota. Either the force is justified by statute or not. If you could've walked away with a damaged ego, without drawing blood, then it's probably not a justified shoot. *Spoiler* Frequently, homicide cases go in front of a grand jury. Every police involved shooting in AZ goes in front of the grand jury. This way one rogue person can't maliciously choose to prosecute you.

The civil case will hinge heavily on the criminal case. Because while a civil case only requires the preponderance of the evidence, lawyers know it's a steep uphill battle trying to hold you responsible for a death that was determined to be justified by police and declined for prosecution/indictment by a grand jury.

By all means, feel free to invoke your right to counsel. Tell the police you'll give a statement later. If there is damning evidence strewn about, you might be in custody. Lemme tell ya, I'm not relying on the FOP $30/mo prepaid attorney to do much. I'm calling a legit criminal defense attorney and forking over the $$$ for a good defense. Maybe I have to take a bit out of the deferred comp or get a title loan, etc.

Realistically, I'm very confident that heaven forbid I have to use lethal force, there will have been no other option left.

Apologies for the long post, but it's 0332 and sarge has 3 hours left on watch.

If paying $30/month for CCW insurance helps you sleep, then it's probably worth it. Clip the insurance card with the phone number to your rape whistle lanyard and swallow the blue pill.

The sarcasm about the rape whistle and blue pill don't do anything to support ANYTHING you just said. Plus the fact, that this comes from a guy with a police union, and a job that almost guarantees you won't get anything other than a paid vacation and maybe a reprimand if you kill someone. The rest of us normal citizens aren't so lucky, as to have such fail-safes in place.
 
"I've heard it's more like $30k to $50k."

Does anyone here believe the $30/month prepaid legal is going to provide $30,000-$50,000 worth of legal services? What is your recourse when they quit answering the phone? Methinks you'll have bigger problems at hand...

Everyone hears a story or knows a guy. There are horror stories about this or that person's experience. I've learned in life that people always tell you THEIR SIDE of the story, full of details that reflect well on them, and conveniently omit the details that don't reflect well. There is another side to the horror story you just heard, trust me.

I've been at the actual scenes. I've done the interviews. I've testified in Grand Jury. I know the criminal prosecutors, public defenders, private defense attorneys, and the judges (albeit only in my county). None of them are out to convict an innocent man (except in family court). I can barely get them to prosecute a bonafide guilty person. Hell, they offer probation for drive-by shootings and kidnappings. You think any prosecutor is looking to spend thousands of hours trying to make a case out of nothing? Like they got nothing on their plate?


The horror stories you hear are used to generate fear and stimulate a response. The goal is to manipulate you into paying $30/month for prepaid legal defense, which is only a false sense of security.

And yes, I do have a union, an officers bill of rights, a merit system, training, law & legal updates, etc. I paid a hefty toll for it. If anyone wants the same, fill out an application and report to the academy. There is a cost/benefit for every choice you make, and you gotta make your own choice.

I honestly truly equate the cheap prepaid insurance to the the equivalent of the person who buys a gun, loads it, shelves it, and never shoots it until they are met with a home invasion. The gun was a false sense of security, not actual security.

I'd read that insurance policy very carefully. That $30/mo is paying the electric bill and some schmoe's salary... It's not getting every shooter 'off the hook'.
 
I personally know the lawyer who would get assigned to the case by all the top Self Defense insurance providers in my area. He flat out says that one of them has no limit to the total lawyer bill and he gets paid directly by the plan. The only money out of my pocket is for the premium.

We have an anti-gun prosecutor in my county, and she will bring criminal charges against anyone who uses a gun be it for self defense or not. The lawyer I know has had to defend quite a number of them. He has even had to defend cases where someone was arrested simply for open carrying (which is legal here) and the prosecutor brought criminal charges.
 
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